Why Sergio applauds new groove Rule

Do you think there should be separate Rules for pros and the elite players? And if so, which which should be separated? For example, should the golf ball used by top players be geared down to prevent classic courses being overwhelmed and made obsolete as many traditionalists claim? Should the pros' pace of play be penalised more strictly?
Posted: 04/08/2008 10:42

No because even though many of us are sh*t golfers in comparison we like to buy the "same(?)"  gear as the pros and pretend we can emulate them and what about the lads on their way to becoming the next generation of golfing greats - how do they get as good using non pro gear? There is already a big divide in what the pros actually use as theirs is custom fitted to an infinate degree - perhaps we should get the pros to smoke 60 fags a day and have 35 pints a week as well.

Posted: 04/08/2008 10:49

Threeputter wrote (see)

- perhaps we should get the pros to smoke 60 fags a day and have 35 pints a week as well.

Is John Daly cutting back?
Posted: 04/08/2008 12:16

I coming round to thinking that something needs to be done regarding the equipment for the pros. I suppose that creating a "pro" golf ball is probably the easiest route. It only needs one specification and then any of the manufacturer's can make it - thus keeping their sponsorship deals in place. After all the golf ball manufacturers make their money out of selling balls to amateurs and not supplying them to playing pros.

It would be great to see some of the famous old courses being used for tournaments again without the need to make them 7500 yards monsters. They could even revert Augusta National back to the magical course it used to be.

As for pace of play then yes the pros need a good kick up the arse! Do away with getting their caddies to line them up on the greens. Give them all satnav devices. The EPGA/R&A/USPGA could also speed up play by not referring rules decisions. Each game has a rules official so why does it take 20 minutes to get a ruling? The official with the group makes the decision to the best of his knowledge and ability - and the player abides by that ruling (with a right to lodge an appeal if necessary).

5 hour rounds suck.

Posted: 04/08/2008 12:29

Tim

How many rulings are actually made in a round in a pro tournament ? How many are made in a scratch amateur competition ?

Posted: 04/08/2008 18:37

I have no idea. My point is that the pros know the rules but they always ask for a ruling, and the rules officials with each group also know the rules (and are carrying the usual rules and decisions books) - so why do they have to call out for the head rules official? We had that farce in the Open this year (I forget the player involved) where there was an interminable hold up, which also begs the question why weren't the following group(s) allowed to play through?
Posted: 04/08/2008 19:22

I had to buy a new driver because the R&A said it was non-conforming. Now they are going to black ball certain wedges that people already own. This is getting ridiculous.
Posted: 04/08/2008 20:09

Agreed Dec - and if they're going to allow us scummers to cary on playing with our razor-like wedges "for 10 or more years", why couldn't they let us carry on booming huge drives with our non-conforming drivers (which in actual fact may or may not have given us 5 yards more yards, but if they did, it was likely to be five yards further into the sh*te, cos we're not pros/elite amateurs).
Posted: 04/08/2008 21:36

Tim Ellis wrote (see)

I have no idea. My point is that the pros know the rules

That is debatable. But even if they do, getting it wrong can cost a lot of ££. This is how they make their living.

Tim Ellis wrote (see)

the rules officials with each group also know the rules (and are carrying the usual rules and decisions books) - so why do they have to call out for the head rules official?

They only carry the books in order to show the player if he is not convinced. But every situation that arises is not always covered by a printed decision. The head guy is rarely called out only if he needs to see the situation. He is usually called on the radio and resolves it then. And even that is rare.

Tim Ellis wrote (see)

 We had that farce in the Open this year (I forget the player involved) where there was an interminable hold up, which also begs the question why weren't the following group(s) allowed to play through?

The situation was complicated and had not been encountered before. It may have resulted in play being suspended.

They couldn't easily play through because the problem was on the green and the next group would have had exactly the same problem.
 

Posted: 05/08/2008 08:43

Fair enough DH but the bottom line is that professional golf is too damn slow - 5 hours for a three ball appears to be acceptable - and the danger is that this will filter down into the amateur game as well.
Posted: 05/08/2008 09:05

Its already here Tim and has been a bugbear for ages - I had a 5 hour round the other week in a medal held up by a 3 ball that really should be made to go out last they are known for being slugs. This lot always play together (although that is frowned upon in comps and yet nothing is done in this world where committees are afraid of upsetting members feelings). Yesterday I played a practice round (no gimmees!) albeit on my own and got round in a leisurely hour and 45 mins and I didn't run.
Posted: 05/08/2008 10:12

I think the ten year exemption will be plenty for most of us as forged wedges lose their bite within a few years anyway and will need replacing before then. As for slow play I hope this will also gradually fade away as younger blood gets into the game. At my club it always seems to be the 55yrs+ brigade  who are never ready to tee off/line 3ft putts up as though their life depended on it, etc, while the rest of us following slowly lose the will to live! I think newer players are more aware of the need to keep pace as courses get busier in order to survive.
Posted: 05/08/2008 11:55

Sadly slow play affects all ages, both sexes and all abilities. My fear is that youngsters taking up the game will use the pros as their role models and come to accept 5 hours plus a quite normal for a round of golf. Peter Alliss commented at the weekend that "slow play won't be stamped out of the professional game until the players want it to be" - sadly I think he's right as the ruling authorities appear powerless.

Posted: 05/08/2008 12:02

David, the last few comps I played in, it was the young guns, emulating their heroes, who were taking the time.  All this prowling around the green, laying flat on the ground to read the putt. Wouldn't do it myself, even if I could get up afterwards.

Rein back the ball for the pros, by all means, get rid of broomhandles, & introduce some score based penalty for excessive delays in a round.

Posted: 05/08/2008 13:38

Mercifully most of the young guns at my club that I have played with or followed have been well behaved and keep me on my toes keeping up! In saying that I confess that I don't play in sunday medals so things may be different then newnick! At the same time I have to admit that if holing a few more putts meant the difference between earning £25k or£125k I might be tempted to have a couple of looks and maybe even plumb bob my putter.
Posted: 05/08/2008 18:48

Limit the pro distance by letting the fairway grass grow a bit longer!! Easy, no cost and can be cut shorter if required for us mortals. This could also make spin control a touch more difficult. Make accuracy more important. They won't dance the ball out of 4" rough.10 years ago they all complained about Carnasty.
Posted: 05/08/2008 20:45

John R7 (11.5) wrote (see)

 This could also make spin control a touch more difficult.

see

 Groovy

Posted: 06/08/2008 09:56

There's a choice:

a) Rules officials ban anything that looks like it might provide a less-than-desirable advantage without even allowing it to be tried for a few years

b) Rules officials, after a reasonable time, decide some innovations are spoiling the game and decide that after a certain date changes must be made.

Personally, I'd go for option 'b' every time.  It's not always possible to know what's a help or hindrance until it's been tried.

When changes have to be made, on the whole I think it's reasonable to give something between 5 to 10 years before amateurs have to change, but pros can switch much more quickly.

If there was a way to ban manufacturers from selling equipment that has been defined as becoming non-conforming in the future, I'd impose that.  At least let them be 'compelled' to label that kind of equipment clearly.  It's crazy that soon-to-be 'non-conforming' drivers were still being sold last year.

Posted: 07/08/2008 10:54

Newnick wrote (see)

David, the last few comps I played in, it was the young guns, emulating their heroes, who were taking the time. 

In recent tournaments I've officiated at, the Junior tournaments were consistently faster than the 'adults'.

The adults are rarely much ahead of schedule and we always have pace of play problems. (Each hole has a standard time - tee to next tee)

The youngsters are between 30 and 45 minutes ahead of time regularly. The first group out a couple of weeks ago finished 1 hour early for both morning and afternoon rounds.

A big factor is the speed at which they walk between strokes. If they lose a ball (or two) on a hole and search for their 5 minutes, they, without prompting, will make it up within a couple of holes at most. 

Posted: 07/08/2008 22:18

To be honest slow play is a real nightmare - yesterday i watched as a pair walked off the green towards the fairway they had just played from as oposed to leaving their bags at the back and clearing the green from the back - they were also very slow at walking.

As for the rules change I am not fully sure how they propose to change them as such, also with these things some bright spark finds a way round it. A good example is the COR of the club face rule and now instead of the face the body deflects. As an engineer this stuff is facinating - as for ruining rounds of golf dunno I am sure that the courses can protect themselves. I also find the professional game a little bit more toward the player - you have ball spotters making a lost ball a rarity (mega waywardness results in loss!!) They have the golf course in tip top condition - (Peter Alliss commented on all of this and got thoroughly complained about - IMO he has a fair point.) For me golf is about playing the conditions and the course that is why you can enjoy a course so many times.

I think equipment has made a major difference - just in the 20 years I have been playing alone. I think its turned ordinary players into single figure players and complete hackers into handicap players - is this a good thing or bad thing? Is it comparable to another sport? I don't think so - to an extent you can buy a game in Golf and for me this is the wrong message but they want more people on the course so to be popular you have to make it easier ! Its a fact of today society is lazy - they shirk work, right I am off to get the kids making sandals and footballs - too much internet chat is making them slack!!

Posted: 08/08/2008 12:15