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Hot topic: Holmes and Watson – power is elementary

Two new faces with famous names have emerged on the PGA Tour to lift the spirits of golfers worldwide with their amazing feats using the driver.

Posted: 13 February 2006
by Bob Warters

Bubba Watson with his Ping G5 driver

Two new faces with famous names have emerged on the PGA Tour to lift the spirits of golfers worldwide with their amazing feats using the driver.

And for Holmes and Watson, solving the mysteries of driving the ball consistently over 300-yards has proved elementary.

Bubba Watson. a left-hander from Bagdad, Florida and J B Holmes, fresh from college in Kentucky, have set new standards in power hitting which have left the likes of Tiger Woods and John Daly trailing yards behind.

Watson (27) first emerged in the limelight at the Sony Open in Hawaii last month setting a driving average of 325 yards on his way to a fourth place finish.

Using his Ping G5 driver, he hit four drives over 360 yards on a Waialae CC course that sits at sea level, including one a colossal 398 yards.

South Africa’s Rory Sabbatini was one of a number of Tour veterans who were amazed by the distance that Watson was hitting the ball.

"He’s unbelievable," said the South African. "I remember when I was a rookie I would just stand up and let go. But there’s no possibility I could ever hit it that far. Some of Bubba’s drives went right off the radar."

Watson, who uses a shorter than standard 45-inch shaft, is well aware that he ranks right up there with the biggest hitters on the Tour and can even in still conditions, can reach 300-yard par-4s with an iron.

JB Holmes King Cobra star

"I don’t think John Daly, Hank Kuehne or Scott Hend can hang with me when I’m hitting it," says Watson, 6ft 3in and a former student of the University of Georgia.

"If I hit my best, there are not too many people that can get close to me," he says.

As for Holmes, 300-yard drives are elementary. He’s just seven yards behind Watson on the driving distance stats with an average of 313.5 yards but has also proved that he has the accuracy and putting touch to win, having claimed the FBR Open from a star-studded field in Phoenix last week.

Holmes (23) trusted his King Cobra 454 Comp (7.5 degree) driver to average 308 yards off the tee to claim his first tour win in his rookie season finishing at 21-under par – seven strokes clear of five players, including fellow Cpobra player Camilo Villegas (third on the PGA Tour driving stats with 305.6 yards).

He hit 47 of his 56 drives over 300 yards and 16 of them exceeded 340 yards, including a longest drive of 365 yards.

In the final round, Holmes reached the green on the 332-yard par-4 17th with his King Cobra X/Speed 3-metal.

US Tour driving

1 Bubba Watson 320.5 yards, 2 J B Holmes 313.5, 3 Camilo Villegas 305.6, 4 Trevor Immelmann 305.2, 5 Tag Riding 304.4, 6 Fred Couples and Hank Kuehne 303.3, 8 Rich Beem 302.7, 9 Robert Garrigas 302.6, 10 Jimmy Walker 302.1, 11 Steve Bowditch 301.7, 12 Charles Warren 300.7, 13 Chris Couch 300.1.

Others include 17 Phil Mickelson (298.9) 18 Henrik Bjornstad 298.5, 23 David duval 296.1, 50 Davis Love 292.8, 56 Vijay Singh 291.6, 60 Justin Rose 291.2, 68 Bernhard Langer 289.5, 73 Greg Owen 288.4, 187 Brad Faxon 257.3 (Not yet qualified: Tiger Woods, John Daly)

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Bob Warters

Claims by the PGA Tour's longest drivers Bubba Watson and JB Holmes can be sustantiated, but honestly, how far are you driving the ball off the tee? We hear stories of amateur club golfers smashing shots over 300 yards or are they merely a figment of fantasy? Stake your claims here for outrageous feats with your driver (name the brand and model, too) or those you have witnessed. ED
Posted: 13/02/2006 11:56

Tim Ellis

I hit the odd one out there at about 300 yards (Titlest 983E)and I did win a "longest drive" comp at Cambridge Meridian on Captain's Day with one that was measured at 364 yards. But I probably average something like 240-250 yards.
Posted: 13/02/2006 12:37

Ossie (7.1)

In the height of summer I've managed around 330yds but usually am around the 230-250yd mark.

No truly outrageous stuff with my driver though I did nearly bag a brace of Canada Geese with one drive. This pair were grazing the fairway about 180 yrds from the tee and were facing each other pecking at the grass about 2ft apart. I caught my drive a little low on the face and the ball shot off very low towards these two geese. It pitched about 5 yrds short of them and passed straight between them about a foot from the ground...if either of them had looked up then my missus would have had something interesting to cook for sunday lunch!!
Posted: 13/02/2006 12:48

SkankyShanky

*delete - double post*
Posted: 13/02/2006 13:12

SkankyShanky

364 yds! Which hole was that on Tim (6th or 7th I guess)? I know once or twice I got it quite a way down on the 7th with the right bounce off the hill and I once carried the middle fairway bunker on the 6th from the medal tees (only time I ever eagled it).

I reckon I can get the odd one out to 300 too, but I reckon anything over 260 is still a long drive. The course I play at now is a links so in the summer you can get a lot of run which makes it misleading.
Posted: 13/02/2006 13:12

DuncAL (4.9)

(Sigh) Bob - you should know better...
Posted: 13/02/2006 13:15

Tim Ellis

JB it was the 14th. I'd had a crap round up til then and decided to give it everything I had, I think both feet were off the ground when I made contact!!
Posted: 13/02/2006 13:34

SkankyShanky

I guess that was someway up past the left bunker. I got midway between that bunker and the green once (and only once and from yellow tees), I was very pleased with myself. Then I took another 5 shots to get it in the hole!

When I left they were planning some big changes to the 14th, bringing out the lake almost to the left edge of the fairway. Dunno if they actually did it or not but I imagine it would make it quite an intimidating hole.
Posted: 13/02/2006 14:35

Ant Lockyer

Longest was 290 normally a lot lot shorter :)

It really is something that appeals to me being able to spank it a country mile.
Posted: 13/02/2006 14:50

Lance Uppercut (11.8)

I have hit a few over 300 and can get it out there reasonably well. Saying that though i think us amateurs tend to over estimate our distance and if our drives were properly measured i think we would be surprised
Posted: 13/02/2006 14:52

DuncAL (4.9)

Agree Lance. Would be good if we could get our drives measured properly, then we would all be able to get on with the game instead of getting hung up on how far ...

Don't get me wrong - I like to hit the ball, especially when it has been misbehaving - it gets a bit more of a spank than normal, I just get miffed because everyone seems to get so hung up on getting that extra 5 yards rather than scoring, which is ultimately the objective of the game.
Posted: 13/02/2006 14:56

Creosote

Any claim for distance is meaningless unless measured accurately by a rangefinder or GPS device. All this stuff about how someone drove xxx disrance because theyw orked out thats how far it was based on the hole length is completely meaningless. It also needs to be qualified whether that is carry or total distance. Hit a low scuttler on a hardpan links course with wind behind in the summer and 300+ total isn't that long, try it in the winter with a force 6 against and its effectively impossible. Lastly its AVERAGE carry or distance that matters, not a one-off wind and terrain assisted drive.

I've won some long drives at pro-ams and usually am the longest hitter in my group, and I average a carry distance in the winter about 250yds with a driver.

They might be a long hitter here at GM but I'll wager that no-one here is carrying the ball an average of more than 260yds in the winter on flat terrain without wind assistance.
Posted: 13/02/2006 15:04

Tim Ellis

JB, it was way beyond the left hand bunker and past the temporary green - just one of those freak shots that I've never hit before or since. I only know the yardage because it was measured as it was Captain's Day. Co-incidentally my wife won the Ladies longest drive on the same day! It must have been the full english breakfast!!
Posted: 13/02/2006 15:13

Just Pured

Apart from having a high swing speed and being able to control it, its prolly best to be able to hit a draw shape and make precise sweeping-up contact with the ball.

Quality of contact is under rated and is prolly the main reason why the Pros hit longer drives consistently, than Mr Ave Golfer. This being due to their repeatable technique. A shorter driver shaft 45" helps.

Tour courses have tightly mown fairways and they play in 80*F this all helps to create longer roll drives, which the TV pundits can get excited about.

The Pros are not in general bigger or significantly physically stronger than Mr Ave - who is sporty and may have a similar swing speed. On those occasions when it all comes together Mr Ave can hit a 300+ yrd drive.

As Tiger has said, the future of Tour golf is 350yd+ drives and a short game to match. I guess it will become like tennis 15yrs ago when Sampras and the like killed the game and made it boring. The next gen of Tour Pros will prolly all play like this.

Narrow the fairways to 15yds and grow the rough to 2ft and leave the technology alone to evolve for the rest of us.. I say.
Posted: 13/02/2006 15:38

Lawman

I doubt I've ever driven it 300 yds in my life. My average is 240, including roll.

When reading threads like this I mentally subtract 20-30 yds from everyone's estimates.

Just about every instruction book/article tells people that it is accuracy that counts, not distance, and they also tell us that the great amateur mistake is to overestimate the distance we hit our clubs.

Yet time after time we get posts by people giving frankly unbelievable distances that they drive the ball.

The handicaps simply do not bear it out.

Posted: 13/02/2006 16:01

Tim Ellis

Last time this thread reared it's head we had someone claiming to average 280+ yards with his 3-wood! People can claim what they like, when it comes to winning it's the short game that makes the difference.
Posted: 13/02/2006 16:07

Taz

I hit it out of sight.

........ but that's just my age.
Posted: 13/02/2006 16:09

Ignited 8.4 >6.2

But it helps if you are using your short game to get birdies not pars!
Posted: 13/02/2006 16:10

SkankyShanky

I have played with Europro tour players (I know this isn't the top tour, but they are good players). What strikes me is not they they drive the ball miles further then me on my best drives (10-20 yds maybe on one of my best), but they do it consistently where as I am hit and miss, and their chipping and putting is just something else (whereas I am miss and miss!)
Posted: 13/02/2006 16:44

Andrew Paxton

Averaging 260 so far this season with a 455 Deep Bore on a 44 inch Harrison 2.5 pro titanium in stiff. Ball is Maxfli Black Max.

Did some experimenting with tee heights (used a pencil sharpner to shorten some extra longs) and marked the ideal height with a pen.

Pleased to say it's worked. Mind you, might only be a mental thing, but whatever, I'm happy.
Posted: 13/02/2006 17:16

DuncAL (4.9)

I have played with some pro's.

Some are excellent ball strikers, some are very much more percentage players.

The bottom line is, it doesn't matter how far they hit it as long as they are within range on a par 5, they seem to always hit the green. As JB Says, if they dont hit the green then they are on the fringe and it is almost a GUARANTEED up-and-down.

That's why they are as good as they are and we're not.

Not because they blast the ball soooo far, because they know where it is going.
Posted: 13/02/2006 17:32

Alex_Smith

I'd say at the moment, I am averaging around 210-220 yards.

Last summmer I did manage to hit one 260 yards dead straight. I think I could be hitting a few further than that, this year.
Posted: 13/02/2006 17:48

JimP (7.5)

There is only one hole on our course when you can trully judge exactly how far you are hitting it because its the only flat fairway on the course ( all the of the rest are either uphill or downhill) and any wind tends to be a cross wind.

So I use this hole to gauge how far I 'CAN' hit the ball at best. It is a hole at which I am generally hitting full out.
because I consider it to be a driveable par 4.

The holes measured distance is 289 yards tee to middle of the green. During the past year I have once been right through the green once at the back of the green several times just a few yards short of the putting surface a few times in the green side bunker.

I would say that averaged out I probably hit around the 230 to 250 mark.

It is fairly irelevent where I play though as you could probably get round with a reasonably good score with no woods in the bag and I only use the driver on 7 of the holes. Modern drivers will put you through the dogleg on many of the holes and some just do not need a driver, accuracy and being on the fairway is far more important.

Equipment Taylormade R580 driver 12 degree loft with a Graffalloy prolite shaft.
Posted: 13/02/2006 19:08

Gil

On the range you can hear them swinging faster and faster.what makes me laugh is when someone you've been playing with says,It's all your fault I was trying to hit it as far as you?.You made me do it?,lol,
Posted: 13/02/2006 19:11

Sean McDonald (10.4)

Can't get it past the ladies tee at present. Long game gone to pot - again....
Posted: 13/02/2006 19:15

Yozz76

Do any of you guys know your average swing speed with the driver?

3 years ago i had mine measured. I was playing off 4 at the time. Many fellow club members commented as to how long i hit it. Depending on the conditions i may have got some near to the 300yrd mark. For the majority though, in terms of carry, the average would have been 255 yrds.

How do i know this? I had my swing speed measured at a place nr Warrington called True Fit Golf. With the driver i averaged 116mph. Based on driver club head speed alone, i understand that the industry uses the formula: speed x 2.2 = average carry!

I'm not at the same level right now but am working back towards it. Puts into context for me the speeds that the tour guys must achieve!

I guess most of us who have posted in this thread must be using stiff shafts?

Posted: 13/02/2006 19:32

brian clairmont

Is it possible to swing the club at 159mph?
Posted: 13/02/2006 19:40

Yozz76

lol at Brian.

Not unless your name is Jason Kuzack or whatever he is called!
Posted: 13/02/2006 19:44

Creosote

A few of the LD guys are in the 150's mph, and of course about 25% of the membership at GM :)

Swing Speed is important for distance but without optimal launch angle and spin rates you wont maximise your distance, and those vary with swing speed proportionately.

Its just so satisfying giving the ball an almighty belt with a driver but for most of the golf us amateurs play length isnt so important, it does help if you can be long and accurate, but gimme accuracy every day.

Posted: 13/02/2006 19:44

gvhjbvg

if i try to rip it and catch it, i can drive over 300 yards quite easily. but i rekon i average 280 - 290
Posted: 13/02/2006 19:53

brian clairmont

I have to disagree Creosote most of the golf amateurs play length is so important.
Posted: 13/02/2006 19:57

Creosote

Brian - could you work on your grammar a little so that we can understand whatever it is you are attempting to say.
Posted: 13/02/2006 22:54

Bob Warters

I'm enjoying this thread. I knew it would get you all going. Driving for so many is a macho thing (though I'm from the old school: ' how many tends to beat how far') but I'm probably jealous!

If you get a buzz from smacking it hard and long off the tee, that's great as long as it brings you back to the course tomorrow.

And certainly much of the sales pitch from the industry around new drivers, focuses on height, flight and distance - because they know we're suckers for it.

So keep your claims - and counter claims - coming and maybe we might investigate the possibility of a GM long-driving competition if we can find a sponsor and venue. Suggestions always appreciated. ED
Posted: 14/02/2006 09:03

Jon Christian

well a mate i play with hits very long but without any real control ive seen him hit a 64 deg wedge 140 yards and on 1 of our par 5s he hit well over 350 with the big stick

me i am around the 250 mark
Posted: 14/02/2006 09:52

DuncAL (4.9)

Jon, your mate has a swing? problem. Hitting a high lofted club that far is simply ridiculous. Unless he thinned it that is ;-)

Brian - give me a 48 inch or 50 inch driver (depending on how you measure the length) and I'll show you a 160 mph swing. However, for us mere mortals that do not possess speciality long drive clubs (that may incidentally be illegal) a high clubhead speed is in the 120's with Tigers measured at 135...

So 159 mph or whatever is a little ridiculous.

Ben - you are gonna have to come along and prove you are such a big boy. I do not doubt that you can hit it over 300, I just want to see the swing. :-)

Bob - if you can get Mike and Shaun to knock up some 48 inch drivers and find a driving range no - a field big enough it might be a laugh. It would take some doing though.
Posted: 14/02/2006 10:06

Taz

"hit a 64 deg wedge 140 yards" Was he trying a flop shot over a bunker Jon?

..... I've done that

; o )
Posted: 14/02/2006 10:08

DuncAL (4.9)

Ben, E-mail me please. I seem to have a space on the team for the challenge match at Staverton... Are you interested?
Posted: 14/02/2006 11:09

Wickawer

At the moment i average 200-210 but i don't care as i am 9/10 in the fairway. I'm using the cobra ladies driver at the moment.

Posted: 14/02/2006 11:28

Moppy (Lhd)

Bob. Would'nt mind a bash at a long drive comp. As long as its not to far north. I,m sure you could find a supplier of good ProV1,s :-)
Posted: 14/02/2006 11:44

Creosote

Bob - I do hope you'll be having a senior's section at the GM Long Drive, so that us old sods can scuttle one out 180yds.
In the Long Drive events Seniors starts at 40 years old!!!! Super Seniors is 50 yrs old and above.

Posted: 14/02/2006 12:06

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