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'In 35 years I have never been called through three times in as many holes and it’s a tribute to all three groups’ appreciation of etiquette...'


Posted: 24 May 2004
by Bob Warters


Watching the clock

I see the spectre of slow play has raised its head once more on the European Tour.

Several players were spoken to by Rules officials in the final round of the Deutsche Bank in Germany yesterday – including the eventual winner Trevor Immelman.

He was paired in the penultime group with Joakim Haeggman – who tends to lie flat on his belly when reading the line of his putts and is notoriously indecisive over club selection.

Immelman himself uses the belly putter and tends to stay just within the rules by holing more putts trimming seconds off this round, but is described by one top referee as not having a second gear when his group gets out of position on the clock.

It was perhaps fortunate for the luckless Frenchman Gregory Havret – who slipped from overnight leader by two shots to tied 22nd after a ten over par 82 – that he didn’t suffer with a further fine and penalty shots after taking two minutes over a shot on the 11th which should have taken less than 50 seconds.

According to one insider, Christian Cevaer – another Frenchman – used to be the slowest player on Tour and was the first to be fined when new Rules were introduced a few years ago, but has speeded up his act. As a result his golf has improved and he claimed the Spanish Open title earlier this year.

At local level, play is tending to be slower than ever this year and I blame the weather.

The wet conditions, followed by a couple of weeks of sunshine in the UK, has led to a faster growth in grass. And while the fairways and greens are kept in good order at most courses, the rough tends to get neglected making it tougher to find a wayward ball.

However, on a personal note I had no complaints at my own course on Sunday.

Having pitched up without a game, I fixed up with 13 handicapper David Dalglish (a cousin of Liverpool and Celtic legend Kenny) and we joined the ‘motley queue’ on the first tee, most of them new to the game.

On reaching the penultimate position we were invited through by the three-ball who’d also been waiting patiently and ushered forward again on the second tee by another threesome. Another trio were waiting to play on the par-3 third but as we quietly hovered at some distance we were waved forward yet again.

In 35 years I have never been called through three times in as many holes and it’s a tribute to all three groups’ appreciation of etiquette that we suddenly had an open course in front of us.

If only some of our more experienced golfers were equally magnanimous.


Why are we waiting?

Here a few tips for eliminating slow play

"Your place on the golf course is directly behind the group in front of you. Not directly in front of the group behind you!"

On the Tee

*Be aware of the speed of the group behind. If they’re playing straighter and faster than you. Let them through with a smile.

*Be ready to play at all times and hit when it’s safe, when the group ahead is clear.

*Encourage shorter hitters to hit first without always being restricted by the ‘honour’ system

*Always play a provisional ball (stating the fact and its identification) if there’s a danger the first may be hard to find.

On the Fairway:

*Be ready to play when it’s your turn, even out of turn if the way ahead is clear and safe and with agreement from playing partners.

*Watch the shots of others members of your group as well as your own.

*In social games where the course is busy, limit searches for lost balls to three minutes.

*When driving a buggy, drop your partner at his/her ball, then continue to yours.

On the Green:

*Place your clubs between the green and the next tee, never in front of the green.

*Study your putt while others are putting and continue putting until holed out unless you are stepping on the line of a colleague or an extension of it.

*Leave the green immediately after holing out and proceed to the next tee. Do not complete your scorecard on or near the green while the next group are waiting to play.

*On longer par-3 it’s often a good idea to stand back and let the group behind play their tee shots.

Tell us on the forum what slow play is like at your course and how you overcome it.


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When did golf become a race ?. I am sure no one wants to wait on tees or for really slow players. But most proffesionals PLAY quckly , what they do as think before they hit. In my experience players are often slow due to rushing and hiiting poor shots and then exceeding the 5 minutes alowed to look for a ball in the rough and not waving the group behind through. On a friendly two ball 18 holes in 2 to 2 1/2 hours should be enough but it isn't a race . Consideration for others should be the criteria , if you want to take your time and you let quicker players through does it really matter ?
Posted: 25/05/2004 14:12

Charles - apologies but 2 Hours for 18 holes? Most people would struggle for 2 hours playing on their own!


Posted: 25/05/2004 14:30

I would say 3 1/2 hours is a reasonable pace.
Posted: 25/05/2004 15:48

Nearly six hours on sunday,C**P
Posted: 25/05/2004 16:29

Consideration for others should be the criteria , if you want to take your time and you let quicker players through does it really matter ?

Charles I couldn't agree more.

Unfortunately some golfers seem unable to allow anyone thro even when it is obvious that both groups' golf is beginning to suffer!

I played a two ball friendly yesterday on an easy, quiet little course in perfect conditions and we got round in 2 hours 20 minutes which I thought incredibly fast. Admittedly we both played well and neither of us had to look for a ball.

But I reckon very few two balls would match that let alone 2 hours!

At our place we reckon to 'do' 18 in competitions in around 3 and a half hours.
Our course is just under 6,000 yards and very few groups take 4 hours.
Posted: 25/05/2004 22:09

2 hours 20 mins is an extremely quick round, I dont think i have ever been round that quick. don't know why you didnt make 54 holes out of the day...
Posted: 25/05/2004 22:47

Looks like its gunna be a Buggy all the time for me in future then :( At 36 years old I suffer with extreme nerve pain from the 20% remains of a bone tumour in my hip joint. Even though I could round out in about four hours with lots of pain killers, the rules of golf are now taking out the enjoyment of being out on the course for some freedom in the fresh air for partialy disabled people like me.
Posted: 26/05/2004 00:58

Apologies guys, had to delete the other 'slow play' thread to avoid duplication. This one retained because it had more responses. If you were on the other thread with something relevant to say please feel free to repeat yourself here! ED
Posted: 26/05/2004 09:28

All of the points seem to be valid here but I do wonder if greedy, or unrealistic, clubs are a part of the problem as well. For example my home course is generally good for time(no tee reservations) and muttering is heard if we reach 4 hrs for a 4 ball. However you look at competition days and suddenly the times spiral up, start times are in place! There have been all sorts of suggestions for fixing this but none seem to have a good prospect of success. My second club operates a tee reservation system and I have yet to get under 4.5 hrs round there.

Through lengthy, and occassionally heated, 19th hole debate the general consensus appears to be that reserved tee times don't work. They are frequently too tightly spaced allowing only 6-8 minutes for completion of a hole. People seem to regard that time slot as theirs and appear reluctant to play faster groups through. Times are booked 'just in case' then not used or cancelled. An acceptance of longer rounds seems to be adopted and the etiquette ignored. Finance is also a big factor with visitors being accepted on their wallets and not golfing criteria. Finally, whilst knowing several widely acknowledged slow players, I have yet to meet anyone who actually believes they are slow.

I don't want a route march but I work on the basis of 2.5 for a 2 ball, 3 for a 3 ball and 3.5 for a 4 ball. You do not have to be superfit or a super golfer to achieve this, I am certainly neither of those things. But I can definitely go round in these times without feeling hurried and whilst being able to enjoy my surroundings. Bobs'pointers in his article are good and will really help. Here are some further things to avoid that might help:-

1. hearing the words 'don't know'or 'wasn't watching' after you ask your playing partners if they saw your ball

2. asking which way to the next green after you have parked your bag/trolley on the wrong side

3. hitting loads of provisional balls just becasue you want some practice

4. holing out last and then having to fetch the pin as your 3 partners wander off.

5. waiting for the green to clear from 250 yrds, 20 yrds further than your tee shot, because you hit a fairway shot this far once 20 years ago.

6. allow yourself to be pressured into a bad round of golf by the group behind. If they are pressing let them through, you will play better after they are gone. You also get to laugh as they have the traditional duffs playing through you.
Posted: 26/05/2004 13:25

Hi Al, number 4 really pisses me off. I'm generally playing with friends and they get really huffy when I remark, 'I'll get the flag myself then, eh!'.
Posted: 26/05/2004 14:09

At our club the commitee has made it mandatory to put both start times and finish times on competition score cards. Any group finishing a long way behind the group in frount is named and shamed on the club notice board. If the group persist in slow play over a number of weeks the commitee reserve the right to ban offending players from entering competions for a set period of time. So far this has not had to happen as the average speed of a round on medal days has been cut by around half an hour.
Posted: 26/05/2004 14:27

What a superb idea Adrian - though hard to police, I suspect, especially if players start changing playing partners!

Just had a thought ...what is the best silent pose to strike on the tee to let the group in front know you're waiting?

1. Hands on hips legs akimbo

2. Arms fold defensively, legs akimbo

3. Pacing across the tee menacingly

4. Laying on the tee, hands behind head

5. Thumping driver into tee, irritatedly

6 Pacing, pulling hair out in tufts, kicking tee box.

There must be more - and some that even work! ED



Posted: 26/05/2004 14:43

None of those things work, it just irritates them and they flat refuse you to allow you through from that point on.

I just put my stuff ready and make on I'm reading my card, or just have a sit by my bag. I've found that I am usually called to play through within 2 holes by doing this. I'm mostly greeted with a smile and we all have a laugh if - what do you mean *if* - when I duff my tee shot.

Due to working away through the week I'm a five day member at a nice little 9 hole course near to where I work. As the summer nights are now in full flow I can do at least 9 (and if it's empty 18) before the light fails. In the three times I've played after work I've been waved through by two four-balls and a three-ball - and I'm on my Johnny Lonesome, i.e., no standing on the course.

I've seen the other way in action: surly, terse comments, gesturing. That usually guarantees a long round even if you're ripping through the course at a rate of knots. I've played wi' nice folk who've done the above and rarely have we been played through - at the same course. If you're up to the green as they're just finishing teeing off, if their tee shots were howlers, most will let you through. P!ss 'em off and they seldom do.
Posted: 26/05/2004 15:35


Ian
Lapsed time seems irrelevant as all courses differ in topography (ooh!) and length! The issue is waiting to play the shot cos of folk peeing about up ahead!


Posted: 26/05/2004 15:54

you cant have a standard duration ie 2 1/2 hours for a 2 ball as every course is different.

my friend and i have played a lot of different courses and our times range from 2 hours 15 to 3 hours 30 depending on the length/terrain of the course.

"Consideration for others should be the criteria , if you want to take your time and you let quicker players through does it really matter ?"

exactly if you fancy a leisurely stroll(without taking liberties) and your not slowing anyone down fair enough. likewise if you want a quick round you should be allowed through.

Posted: 26/05/2004 17:26

I've been struggling to hold my game together when having to wait behind other groups but have started to come to grips with the wait. Instead of selecting my club/shot etc and standing waiting to play, I get to my ball and wait until the other group is just about out of range before setting up to play my next shot, even to the extent of going back ten or so yards and walking up behind the ball. I find this helps to maintain my rythm/focus. Round times are about the same as Monty (hold ups not withstanding).
Posted: 29/05/2004 20:52

I have just come back from 2 days at Telford golf club courtesy of the wife. Nice club, good hotel, cracking course.

BUT 2 FIVE HOUR ROUNDS!!!!!!!!!!

I ask you..........



James
Posted: 30/05/2004 17:54

makes your blood boil.

on the previous point, making it clear that you are ready to hit your shot while people ahead are looking for their ball usually does the trick. make sure that you are watching to pick up any of the very slight 'come through' signals that people seem to use.
Posted: 31/05/2004 10:14

My course is a (short)12 holer, so we play 2 nines in medal competition. Which makes it difficult in terms of allotting tee times, as you have to allow for groups coming through for their 2nd nine.

I had the misfortune to play a late tee time at the weekend in the medal, and we had to wait 25 mins to tee off because of one group who had taken an inordinate amount of time on the front nine.

Our first nine took 1h 45m, the 2nd nine (once the slow group had finished) 1h 15m.

I agree with the view that golf is not a race, but the suggestion that consistently slow players be named & shamed, and penalised, is a good one.
Posted: 01/06/2004 07:27

Isn't half the problem due to the clubs trying to get a 4 ball away every 7 to 8 minutes. Okay it's money in their pocket but throwing so many people on the course surely is going to cause a backlog, and give the club a bad reputation.

Our club has 10 minute intervals, and in competitions you play as 3 balls. You hardly ever need to wait for your next shot. In fact on the first tee the group infront will normally be already on the green (Par4). I think you play better golf not feeling the presure from the group behind.

The benefit I guess we have in Belgium (and most of Europe) is that you can only play if you have a valid handicap and a member of a Golf Federation. This basically means that unless you can play to 36 handicap and have passed a written exam on rules and etiquette you cannot play.

Downsides? Golf is not very popular and as a result there is no investment into new clubs.

One more thing. There should be a rule that you cannot make more than 2 practise swings.
Posted: 01/06/2004 08:34

4 or 4h30 for a round? That's what you're meant to take isn't it? Arf arf! At least that's what it is meant to take in France. My worst record here was 6h15 in a competition. At one par 3, there were 5 groups on the tee. A couple of the guys had brought playing cards with them, which was nice.

On the Albatros course, they have marshals* out during competitions and threaten slow groups with 2-stroke penalities if they don't catch up over the next 2 holes. It usually works.

On my own, I usually get round in about 2h50 - 3h20 depending on the course, and that's hitting 2 or 3 balls off the tee and playing 1 or 2 extra approach shots per hole.

A few months back I broke my own record at a club north of Paris: 7 groups passed in a mere 12 holes. Is this a forum record?


(* Quite amazing when you consider that Marshal isn't a common name in France. ..... Taxi!)
Posted: 01/06/2004 09:10

Having played golf for more years than I care to remember, slow play i.e. 4+ hrs seem to have got worse in the past 15 years. When I first started with my Father the advice/order was go to your ball and hit it.
In the fifties, in a 4 ball, each player would play when he reached his ball providing he didn't interfere with anyone's line. Honour was not observed except on the tees and the approach to the green, and it was not unusual to have two or three balls in the air at the same time. All club selection was done on the walk up to the ball. On the green the line of your putt was studied while the others played out, and short putts were rarely marked but holed out immediately. The net result of this was a round took slightly under the 3 hrs to 3.10 hrs.
I realise that I have got on a hobby horse, but having just suffered two 4.45 hr rounds, the opportunity of this thread to blow off some steam was too good to miss, and just maybe it may make some look at their game.
Posted: 01/06/2004 14:49

Speaking to a friend of mine today it seems much worse in the USA. 5 and 6 hour rounds appear to be the norm, and in a buggy!!
Posted: 01/06/2004 15:08


mt
I am astonished by speed with which some of you play , around 3.5 hours seems normal to me. Why would you want to play in 2.5 hours ? thats 8 minutes per hole , so for a 2 ball 4 minutes each , what do you do jog around the course?
Posted: 01/06/2004 15:28

I'm not sure I agree with idea that you should always let the group behind you play through if they seem to be playing faster than you - this is sensible if there is no one ahead of you but if your own pace of play is being dictated by a chain of golfers in front of you then everybody should be patient and wait their turn after all, it I let you play through I have to sit and wait for you to get out of my way then.

I think the two rules of thumbto abide by should simply be:

1.If the group behind are quicker than you and the way is clear ahead of you then let them through.

2.If you are waiting behind another group on the first tee then you should endeavor to keep up with them for the whole game unless they in turn have an empty course in front of them and you feel that they are playing unusually fast.

Providing those in front of me are not playing impolitley slowly, I am happy to take 3 1/2hrs to play a round at my home course regardless of whether I am practicing on my own or part of a four ball in formal competition.
Posted: 01/06/2004 15:42

VW, i think most of the comments here are to let people through where you have an empty hole in front, ie you have lost touch with the game in front.
even if you are behind a game in front, it is only courteous to wave a game waiting behind through if you are looking for a ball.

Cobra, i am all for so called 'ready golf', where even out of order you can play your ball if you are ready if it isnt going to interfere with another shot. as for having three balls in the air at once, players not watching other people's shots is one of the prime causes for slow play IMO.
Posted: 01/06/2004 16:06

VWgolfer has a point , you should be behind the group in front and not in front of the group behind.
But I still think the important thing is to be aware of what is going on around you.
You know if your group is playing slowly and delaying others let em through.
Posted: 01/06/2004 16:15


mt
Myself and my playing partner turned up at the first tee on Saturday at 2.10 ish for a 2.12 start , only to see three guys teeing off.They were obviously late since I had seen one hanging around the practise green waiting and another park his car at about 80 mph and rush off. The course was not at all full , am I alone in thinking common sense would suggest that since they had not left the first tee they should have asked if we wanted to play through. As it was we spent nearly 5 hours playing behind this lot without once being asked. It can't have helped their game having us constantly waiting behind them , it certainly did not help ours much.
Posted: 01/06/2004 16:26

I guess that the rough was very much deeper, and if you went in it you soon learned not to, a lost ball being the result.
Letting others through is not the answer, but keeping pace with those in front. The problem is if someone has a delay in finding a ball, then you get a ripple effect as on the motorway, all the way back round the course. Perhaps volunteer stewards on competition days might be the answer but that seems a bit ott.
Posted: 01/06/2004 16:32

Fair point Dan, it goes without saying that you should wave people through if you intend to take your full five minutes ball hunting.

I am still amazed by the idea that a solo player or two ball should be able to get round a busy course in significantly less time than a four ball - if the course if reletively empty then you should expect to be able to play through the occassional lone fourball if you catch up with any but if the course is packed to the rafters with golfers then surely we should all just wait our turn, providing the group in front of us are keeping up with the group in front on them.

One question I would like an answer to is this - when is it acceptable to ASK to be allowed to play through rather than waiting for the group ahead to ask?

I have played many a round stuck behind slow hackers with no ettiquette whatsoever that remain oblivious to my desperate desire to play through for the entire excruciating 18 holes!
Posted: 01/06/2004 16:32

mt that is just lack of manners, which only the committee can deal with
Posted: 01/06/2004 16:35

VWgolfer i'd say its acceptable on the 2nd hole that you have to wait for them to play.Remember the 2nd rule of golf Thou shalt not pass.on the 3rd hole its acceptable to launch a ball over their heads (preferable a nice hard ball but probably best to make it a crap one cos it'll likely get smacked into the s**t by them).On the 4th its acceptable to resort to voilence with anything other than woods.Hope this clears it up for you
Posted: 01/06/2004 20:13

Tried the kind of thing Cobra Kid described this afternoon. My son and I played 9 holes in 1hr20mins using 7i, GW and putter, no practice swings allowed. Result I went round in net par, no balls lost. Am wondering why I usually lug so much metal around. Recommend everyone try it at least once, its very educational.
Posted: 01/06/2004 20:22

Just heard a horror story about the work outing on Monday.

Firstly, they tried to squeeze too many people into the block booking range.

Then the course (owned by a hotel) interspersed the outing tee times with residents who had been "promised a game".

Net result - 5 to 6 hour rounds, and the (already paid for) soup & sandwiches had run out before the end.

Glad I opted out of that one!
Posted: 01/06/2004 20:45

i got one for your waiting things.
whack a ball (it always seems to go right at the people in front) and shout the loudest possible fore you can.
that always gets them movin for me.
Posted: 01/06/2004 22:47

Part of the problem nowadays is players expect to spend 4-5 hrs on the course and don't know any better, corporate days are the worst offenders, and handicap seems to have no baring on speed.
I wouldn't advise hitting through them you might become the victim of golf rage,see other thread.
Posted: 02/06/2004 13:39

Is there a time limit on the tee and at a address on the fairway?

I'm a patient chap most of the time but how long does it take on average to get set and hit the ball?

One guy I know takes on average 55 seconds a shot!

Getting yourself set the best you can is important to your swing, but there must be a limit to how much prep you need to take.

Sergio Garcia had a problem getting his grip right some years back. This guy has a problem with his whole body.
Posted: 02/06/2004 13:49

One of Bobs ideas for speeding up play is : "On longer par-3 it’s often a good idea to stand back and let the group behind play their tee shots"

I have often heard this, but dont understand why ?
Posted: 20/10/2004 14:18

Theory is that the group behind play, then you putt out as they walk up to green. Thus less waiting. Im my experience, though it usually makes play slower.
Posted: 21/10/2004 11:46

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