Submitted by giggity on Fri, 17/09/2010 - 19:50 Is it worth looking at kzg or wishon etc as opposed to regular brands that are custom fitted? Does the ability to choose headweights and styles hold any advantage over the likes of a properly fitted mizuno? Mac1 replied on Fri, 17/09/2010 - 20:19 Permalink An old fart who we see playing on his own alot, went to Graham Tonge and was custom built.It knocked so many shots off his game, and he would seriously kick ass... Duck Hook replied on Fri, 17/09/2010 - 20:20 Permalink NO NO No...I did this a few years ago and initially felt like a pro with my custom fitted clubs..Wizards I think they were. But after a while they get odd looks from your friends. But the reality is top of the range Callaway irons are the answer. Go for the tour version if you under 9 handicap. Mac1 replied on Fri, 17/09/2010 - 21:08 Permalink Yes, Yes, Yes.....Don't be another sheep GG.... Taz replied on Fri, 17/09/2010 - 21:14 Permalink giggity wrote (see) Is it worth looking at kzg or wishon etc as opposed to regular brands that are custom fitted? Does the ability to choose headweights and styles hold any advantage over the likes of a properly fitted mizuno? In a word - no - custom fitting is over-rated. giggity replied on Fri, 17/09/2010 - 21:58 Permalink I wouldn't touch callaway stuff with a poo covered stick, don't know why really just never seen anything that really appeals. So probably best sticking to mainstream brands? giggity replied on Fri, 17/09/2010 - 22:12 Permalink Are these component brands a bit ropey then. Spoke to a dealer who said kzg and miura were practically identical feel wise but because no one has heard of kzg they are half the price! The Regulator replied on Sat, 18/09/2010 - 07:31 Permalink KZG, Wishon etc etc are good quality. But no better or worse than Ping, Mizuno etc.Tom Wishon is a guy who is genuinely passionate about golf and about the values of getting fitted for your clubs. Which is important. That's why he (and other brands like KZG) only sell their products through pro-fitters.The likes of Ping and Mizuno fitting centres do a good service in checking that you have the right flex shaft for your swing speed (how many of us just pick 'stiff' 'cos that's what our mates play....?) and getting the lie and club length right. Having switched to 2deg upright and 1 inch over standard length, I can tell you that such things make a huge difference to ball striking consistency. Whether it's worth the extra to go to a fitting centre who do the extra bit: MOI matching etc, it's the law of diminshing returns. How many of us hackers are going to notice if one club is 3 grams off? And of course Wishon and KZG won't bring as much in resale price.But DO get your clubs correctly fitted for flex, lie and length. giggity replied on Sat, 18/09/2010 - 07:44 Permalink My clubs are fitted , I was wondering if going the extra mile with built for me component clubs would.open any new and improved options. Creosote replied on Sat, 18/09/2010 - 09:22 Permalink You'll not get anything extra from components, but you may save a few quid, and you may get a better fitting service from a good specialist fitter than you get at a lot of the so-called fittings at clubs and shops. Downside is as most of the component brands aren't well known and thus lack appeal, so resale values are poor should you wish to move the clubs on. Jahmoo replied on Sat, 18/09/2010 - 09:44 Permalink I am not sure with KZG, but Miura look the nuts, kinda Golf PornI rate fitting, but as TR says: "DO get your clubs correctly fitted for flex, lie and length."I had the Lie changed on my Clubs, worked a treat, but when I renew, I will be getting the works, as feel Length could be an issue also.Its all in the way they feel, so get booked in with Mizuno, Ping or Callaway and get fitted, if you go to the Manufacturer, you will be able to hit a few balls and be able to feel and see whether its making a difference before you buy fatshaft replied on Sat, 18/09/2010 - 09:50 Permalink Duck Hook wrote (see) NO NO No...I did this a few years ago and initially felt like a pro with my custom fitted clubs..Wizards I think they were. But after a while they get odd looks from your friends. But the reality is top of the range Mizuno irons are the answer. FYP. NickdeBug replied on Sat, 18/09/2010 - 12:45 Permalink echo the sentiments with regard to getting your static fit right. Lenght and loft are going to improve your accuracy. Shafts are likely to improve your ball flight.If you want custom fitted then the Mizuno centres are as good a choice as any. But try to pick one where you can actually see the ball flight, rather than rely on a Vector monitor. The trackman or similar doppler radar systems will give you a much more accurate indictation of flight. Cheerio .. replied on Sat, 18/09/2010 - 18:59 Permalink 15-20 years ago i bought my Ping Zing2s they were measured and fitted to me - black dot std .... My golf changed I went from 12 to 5 rapidly and was shooting low scores. So simple works now i use MP52s and my scoring is dreadful - but that's not the clubs, I love the technical stuff but honestly speaking I have not made a full benefit of it. Truth is a simple loft lie and shaft flex works, dopplar radars are cool but reality, is it wont make you hit it better.... giggity replied on Sat, 18/09/2010 - 22:21 Permalink Thanks, I know getting fit is a good idea but I was interested in whether the component head quality was of a higher standard, I had read that kzg use the same foundry as miura but then shipped out for finishing - wouldnt this mean the kzg were half price miuras? Are the other such brands along similar lines? I am not interested in resale values if they are the right clubs as they will be in the bag for many years. Martin H_2 replied on Tue, 21/09/2010 - 15:46 Permalink I think it's personal preference as regards brands etc but I would recommend getting fit. As with anything else, if it's done properly it's worth it; either go to one of the recognised brands fitting centres, e.g Callaway, Titleist or Mizuno if you have a preference for their equipment or an independent specialist like Precision golf they supply Miura as well)where you can try gear from several of the manufacturers.If it's carried out professionaly you should notice the difference and your game will improve. Jahmoo replied on Thu, 23/09/2010 - 11:23 Permalink giggity wrote (see) Thanks, I know getting fit is a good idea but I was interested in whether the component head quality was of a higher standard, I had read that kzg use the same foundry as miura but then shipped out for finishing - wouldnt this mean the kzg were half price miuras? Are the other such brands along similar lines? I am not interested in resale values if they are the right clubs as they will be in the bag for many years. Where are you in the UK. IronWRX is a member on here, he is a club fitter, chat to him for some feedback on what to do. He is very local to me, always have him doing little tasks for me, re-gripping or Club repairs. Pengwyn 7.8 replied on Thu, 23/09/2010 - 15:11 Permalink Giggity,Getting fitted ala Mizuno is of benefit to everyone imo. But going to the next extreme of fitting would only benefit those who are playing decent in the first place.If you are not single figures/approaching cat 1 then I guess the money would be better spent on lessons.Resale value would be terrible though so bare that in mindAt least with Muira you get golf porn and because they are more recognised you would get a better resale.Tonge is well respected. But I know of 2 people who went to him expecting miracles and after a honeymoon period where things where great they came to the conclusion that it was a waste of money. No surprise to hear that both of these guys where mid teen hcap golfers who didn't practice and wanted the improvement without the commitment of practice. DAM replied on Thu, 23/09/2010 - 19:29 Permalink Surely though the worlds top 10, 50, 100 etc have their clubs built to the highest standards? I doubt your suggesting that a professional golfers clubs are built down the same productions lines as those that appear in American Golf? giggity replied on Thu, 23/09/2010 - 20:32 Permalink Peng - yes I am approaching cat 1 ( about the same as you in your name give or take .1) Pasty - I am wondering if production/ manufacture of the individual clubs is within tighter tolerances. Having hit a set of miuras recently it made me think there is something more out there. Currently on custom fitted ping I10. John Foster 13.9 replied on Thu, 23/09/2010 - 21:19 Permalink I bought a set of KZG Eveolution's from Applied golf technology in St Andrews a couple of years ago and can highly recommend them. giggity replied on Thu, 23/09/2010 - 22:17 Permalink Pasty - just re read your post, I'm not sure where you are going with the comment re club amateurs, unlike you as a pro us amateurs don't get to try all the equipment available and so yes we post on these forums as it may be useful to get the opinions of the lucky few. I own a putter made by someone who can't afford to sponsor someone on tour but the putter itself feels, to me anyway, better than an off the shelf scotty but built for me, something I could not dream of achieving through more mainstream routes. I was merely wondering if the same could be said for component heads and specialist craftsmen making my clubs. Nimbleblade 5.1 replied on Fri, 24/09/2010 - 22:33 Permalink I went down the road of custom , used the guys at Precision and reduced my handicap from 13 to 5 in just over a year.Now as for the pros, I know a number get their clubs done by the guys at PrecisionAlways say you get what you pay for JimP-6- replied on Sun, 10/10/2010 - 10:12 Permalink As someone who builds his own, just for the fun of it, it gives a easy opportunity to try different shafts grips etc. What I can say is that the shaft is the biggest factor and the correct grip size pobably rates up there as well. Shaft length/lie combination is relatively important it is possible to get away with a lie that is not perfect for you.For reference I currently play with a Dynacraft combo set which I bought for £50 already shafted. Two changes of shaft (which were relatively cheap as the other sets were resold on ebay) and finally found a good combination.Obviously to get the maximum benefit a full custom build is ideal where things like optimised swing sweight and lie can be achieved.Any body used to watch the Golf Channel specials on club building and the Tour Vans knows that the pros clubs are full optimised. giggity replied on Sun, 10/10/2010 - 15:03 Permalink Thanks Jim, this may persuade me to look at a set for next season although typically since the threat of being replaced my irons have been behaving very well indeed! Tin Pot replied on Sun, 10/10/2010 - 17:26 Permalink The less able a golfer you are the more proper fitting will help you, end of. Longshot posted this from Tom Wishon five years ago, it's all still true: http://www.golfmagic.com/forum/forummessages/mps/dt/4/UTN/10590/ giggity replied on Sun, 10/10/2010 - 17:37 Permalink So if i play of a reasonable hcp there is a diminishing return to custom building? Caffeineted replied on Sun, 10/10/2010 - 17:40 Permalink Mrs C plays with a Dynacraft combo hybrid/iron set, albeit with Dynacraft graphite shafts. They are excellent (whenever I'm allowed to try them).Not sure if Dynacraft are available in the UK nowadays..... giggity replied on Sun, 10/10/2010 - 18:33 Permalink Thats good news C was mrs C fitted for the clubs?Confusing to be told that custom fitting gets less important as my hcp gets lower - confused me as I would have thought that the lower the hcp the less the margin of error and so the greater the need to have something tailored to yourself. TP - were you actually referring to a lower hcp already knowing what they need from previous experience thus getting close to what he wants without fitting? Caffeineted replied on Sun, 10/10/2010 - 22:01 Permalink G: No, she got them secondhand off Ebay a year or so ago, for little dosh. The shafts are reg. flex standard and are a wee bit longer than my Yonex clubs...but she's a tall lady. Tin Pot replied on Sun, 10/10/2010 - 22:07 Permalink Sorry guys I shouldn't have commented as I am completely unwilling to do this debate again. if you don't like the link just google Tom Wishon he has just about all the answers and translates his engineering expertise and experience to the lay person admirably. Either The 12 Myths or The Right Sticks are great publications, and I've yet to see anyone successfully prove him wrong. Oddjob 7.6 replied on Sat, 16/10/2010 - 15:57 Permalink pasty wrote (see) In what respect "better"?It's only club amateurs on forums you hear talking about all this sort of nonsense, just take a look at the equipment used by the world's top 10, 50, 100 etc and a strange pattern will emerge:Titleist, Ping, Taylor Made, Callaway, Mizuno, Srixon, Nike, Wilson, etc etc etc etc. Yeah but the component companies cant afford to pay the touring pros big bucks to put their clubs in the bag.The touring pros might have bags full of the mainstream gear we all see in our local AGD but thats not for any reason related to quality vs. components. stewart barholm replied on Wed, 01/12/2010 - 21:18 Permalink Don`t knock Component clubs there are a very good Quality clubs on the market, and these are not fitted with any old shaft. take a Mizuno.Callaway,Srixon, TM, Nike forged Cavityback club along with a Snake-eyes , Tom Wishon, Orka, KZG, Forged Cavity, put in the same shaft, PX 6.0, Purred, frequency fitted, same grip and swingweight, and the results would show that there is not much comparison between them, OH, and also the top selling brands like Ping, Callaway, Taylormade Nike and other brands are also the most sold equipment in the used/ forsale section in golfmags, and e-bay. ....... replied on Wed, 01/12/2010 - 21:43 Permalink Broad sweepSome component clubs are every bit as good as mainstream, some better and some worse and you MUST get them put together properly, after all that is part of the reason you got em. The sales approach is not to support tour players fees, tv commercials etc, try taking KZG from their current visibility to that of a ping and imagine the costs.Sell at a reduced price with better service and similar levels of profit, unlike the mainstream at least with component clubs your shafts are being fitted correctly and not at random angles.There will always be room for quality component companies and they will never become massive business and will only very rarely appear in the tour players bags. IMOIf you are buying golf clubs with their resale value in mind then why are you buying themPS, still cannot figure the question mark on this pc Smitty replied on Tue, 11/01/2011 - 16:14 Permalink I believe you will find that having the correct loft/lie/length/shaft (meaning flex and kick-point)/and grip matched to your swing/ball-flight will bring you marked results! On the subject of quality, a little known or thought of fact is there are only so many true foundries making clubs in the world, certainly well less than the amount of different brands of clubs (not implying that all quality is the same), however one foundry makes more than one brand of Club. Here is a thought to consider "many responses reference re-sale value or pier pressure/opinion, IF YOU HIT YOUR CLUBS WELL WOULD YOU SERIOUSLY WORRY ABOUT RE-SALE VALUE! Additionally I doubt anyone has had a friend say "My that was a great shot, too bad it was hit by a off-named club"!