Given that you have purchased a Powakaddy Digital which effectively has a distance measuring device in that it can measure multiples of 15, 30 or 45 yards using the EDF function will you be asking the R & A whether this product is legal.
Seems to me that as the rules are rules any artificial measuring device is illegal.
In the last paragraph of my post of 11.5.07,I was trying to ask the same point as David has now made more clearly. Any measuring device on a cart used by a player - unless permitted by local rules - has to run the risk of breaking the overall rules of golf. Sure, the auto-distance feature of some P'kaddy carts only moves the cart a small amount, but it's still a measured distance and therefore could conceivably give an advantage.
I haven't seen any feedback yet in this thread what the R&A have finally said to Motocaddy about their temperature display. Any news?
I think you're being a bit pedantic now. The Powacaddies state that the EDF function moves the cart *approximately* 15, 30 or 45 yards.
I don't think any sane person would regard this as a true distance measuring function..even the R&A!
If one were to take your argument seriously, then every single trolley would be illegal, as the wheels have a fixed circumference and by counting the rotation of the wheels, one would be able to accurately determine distance!!
I bought the S3 last week from AG, they new nothing about the issues of temp/gauge and distance rules!!! Doh. I have bought it anyway and in comps I will tape over the whole display which appears to be acceptable by the R&A for now. Could do with an update from the R&A if anyone has one.
Couple of interesting points on the S3;
I thought the distance markers at my course were a bit iffy on a few holes, measured them with the trolly and the 150yd markers are bang on to the centre of the green. This proves 3 things, a) the greenkeepers got it spot on b) the S3 measurements are spot on c) I can hit a PW a long way!!
I have the 27 hole battery and it lasted for 36 holes last Sunday with 4 out of 5 power bars still remaining! I am on a semi-hilly course so very impressed.
Temperature gauge did not help me one bit, apart from to confirm why I was sweating, although 36 holes may have helped cause the sweat!
With the Distance measurements, I have so far found I forget to reset it on each hole most of the time, so not much help there. I am going to get a stroke saver and update it with info which may be of more benefit to me. The best use for it is to confirm and boast to your mates how far your Sunday best drive went.
Nimbleblade and Bandido, if you buy the S3 before the end of July you get a free Motocaddy S3 bag. You have to send off your warranty card when you buy the trolley and then they will send the bag within 28 days. Sent mine in 7 days ago, hopefully I will receive mine soon, trolley is working fine with an old Hippo bag (no stand) I have until then.
I have recently purchased an S3 and think it is a great piece of kit. However, I am keen to know if motocaddy have had an official response from the R&A about the legality of the trolley in competition. If it is illegal, have motocaddy come up with anything allowing the temperature feature to be disabled????
Please see the reply I received from the R&A below.
I refer to your e-mail below and I sincerely regret the delay in getting back to you.
Please be advised that the use of any temperature gauge during the course of a stipulated round would be contrary to Rule 14-3 (Artificial Devices and Unusual Equipment). This Rule prohibits the player from using any artificial devices or unusual equipment for the purpose of gauging or measuring distance or conditions that might affect his play.
The fact that this feature has been installed into a motorized trolley is not ideal. However, as long as you either disable the function or cover up the display during play, this should be acceptable.
I hope these comments are of assistance, but please let me know if you have any further questions.
Came across this site whilst doing some research, great site, knowledgeable members well done guys. Toying with the idea of buying the new 2008 S3 with competition mode (as suggested on this site I note)but still not sure about its legality. Saw this on the R&A website advising wording for local rule on Distance Measuring Devices
Distance-Measuring Devices: [Specify as appropriate, e.g., In this competition, or For all play at this course, etc.], a player may obtain distance information by using a device that measures distance only. However, if, during a stipulated round, a player uses a distance measuring device that is designed to gauge or measure other conditions that might affect his play (e.g., gradient, wind-speed, temperature, etc.), the player is in breach of Rule 14-3, for which the penalty is disqualification, regardless of whether any such additional functions are actually used.
Am I correct in thinking that it means if it has a temp gauge,whether turned off or covered with tape,its still in breach of 14-3. Shame Motocaddy don't/won't address these issues and keep people informed on their website as to what happened with the R&A. Can't have been good news or else they would have splashed it all over. Would love to get one but no chance of that at the moment until I can confirm it is 100% legal under the rules. Any thoughts appreciated
The comment posted in this thread on 02/09/07 from the R&A would seem to be relevant to your question:
The fact that this feature has been installed into a motorized trolley is not ideal. However, as long as you either disable the function or cover up the display during play, this should be acceptable.
So, they're not fans of having certain features on a Motocaddy, but having them in some form of 'off' condition seems to satisfy them.
Lets get real. All this business of a temperature guage is no more than a gimmick. Its not useful, so why bother? Personally I know whether it's hot, warm or cold - I don't need a thermometer to tell me. And I'm darned if I'm going to pay 350 quid for a digital read out just to confirm it. Motocaddy fitted it cos they could - not cos they thought it might be useful. Stick to making something that carries clubs efficiently and well. £100 difference between the S1 and S3 just for a temperature guage and a distance measure? Come on guys, just give us value, not gadgets.
It's Rod Brown here, MD of Motocaddy. Our new 2008 S3, which is now in stock, has a new feature called Competion mode which gives the user the ability to disable the temperature and distance readings. There are two competition modes, competition 1 disables the temperature and the distance readouts and competition 2 just disables the temperature (for courses that do allow distance measuring devices under their local rules).
It also has a new faeture called ADC (Adjustable Distance Control) alowing the user to send the S3 on any distance from 5 to 60 yards (in 5 yard increments). The S3 is fully digitally controlled making it incredibly reliable and efficient. It recently won the 5 Star Gold Award in Today's Golfer magazine - best on test.
Owners of the 2007 S3 can purchase this upgrade for their S3 for just £29.99 - this is a special subsidised price that we are offering.
One more thing, the R&A have written to us to confirm that if the features can be disabled (as they can on the 2008 S3) then it is perfectly legal for use in all competitons.
The 2007 S3 is also fine for use in competitons if the golfer covers up the temp display and selects "Total Distance" which can't measure anyhting less than 1km.
I think the S3 is a better piece of kit and it has a number of features that are superior to the S1. How much extra you are willing to pay is a matter of choice - why do you think there are about 6 Powacaddys on the market.
Motocaddy clearly should have checked the temperature and distance aspects with the R&A before selling the S3 but I also think the guys at Motocaddy deserve a bit of credit for sorting out the problems. Okay I am not over the moon at having to pay another £30 for the new circuit board but I suppose it does have the ADC function on it too.
i have spent the extra 30quid, installed the new board. but it came with no instructions, so again i had to use the masking tape! anybody have an ideas on how to use the new functions?
Adjustable Distance Control (ADC): This feature allows you to send the trolley on a set distance between 5 and 60 yards (or meters) in increments of 5 yards (or meters).
To enable this feature, you first have to stop the trolley by depressing the main on/off button in the centre of the control panel. When the trolley is stationary, you hold down the central button for 3 seconds until "05" appears on the screen. You can then twist the button to select a distance between 5 and 60 yards (or meters if you have distance/speed display on metric) to send the trolley on. Once you have selected the distance, simply press the the button again to send it on. If you have sent it on and decide you need to stop it, simply press the button again and the trolley will stop again instantly.
Competition Modes: You can disable the distance readings if you are playing in a competition and the golf club does not allow the use of measuring devices. Many clubs do allow their use, so check with the club first.
Competition Mode 1: To select competition mode 1, hold in buttons A and B together for 3 seconds. The display on the top right will show "C1" where the temperature is usually displayed and the distance readings will disappear from the screen altogether.
Competition Mode 2: To select competition mode 2, hold in buttons A and B together for a further 3 seconds. The display on the top right will show "C2" where the temperature is usually displayed and the distance readings will appear on the screen again. This mode is where a club does allow distance measuring devices, but will not allow temperature to be displayed during a competition.
To revert the display back to normal, simply hold in buttons A and B together for a further 3 seconds.
Hope this helps anyone who has upgraded but doesn't have any instructions on how to use the new features.
Had my S3 (2008) since November. The three prong plastic clip (used to attach strap around top of bag) broke when it got trapped between frame and ground last week. Emailed Motocaddy and they shipped a new bag support at no cost which arrived a couple of days later. Excellent customer service.
To completely clear up any misunderstanding that may exist about the legality of the Motocaddy S3 I recently wrote back to the R&A after I had been made aware of a situation in a professional tournament in Germany where a player was wrongly disqualified for using a Motocaddy S3. The rules official apparently disqualified the player because "the trolley has the ability to display the temperature" even though the player was apparently using the trolley in competition mode which takes the temperature display off the screen. Please see a copy of the e-mail below.
Thank you for your email regarding Rule 14-3 and the Motocaddy S3.
The use of both a thermometer and distance measuring device during the course of a stipulated round remains contrary to the Rules of Golf. The existence of these two devices on the trolley does not render the trolley itself non-conforming, however if at any time a player was to use either of these two devices during a round, the player would be in breach of Rule 14-3.
I can confirm that if the trolley is fitted with a competition mode which disables these two functions, then this is acceptable. While it is appreciated that the functions could be switched on by mistake during the round, it is the actual use of this information which results in a breach of Rule 14-3, therefore, provided the player switches the trolley back to the competition mode and does not utilise the information in any way, no breach will occur.
I hope that this is of assistance in clarifying the use of such devices during a competition.
Kind regards
Shona
SHONA McRAE Rules Assistant The R&A, St Andrews, Fife, Scotland, KY16 9JD
Thanks for the reassurance. Very clear answer from the R&A, and perhaps one which Motocaddy users who play in high-level amateur competitions might want to print off and keep in their bag, to fend off some misguided rules official. In fact, couldn't you get an R&A statement along the lines of the answer you've reproduced which, perhaps on a laminated card, could be available to anyone who wants it?
I'd be buying an S3 at this time, except that I'm moving to the US. As far as I can tell, not only do you not market Motocaddy in the US but powered trolleys are few and far between. It seems many courses don't want people to walk. Whether that's because they want the income from rented carts or because they believe cart use speeds up play, I'm not sure. I have heard it said that in the very hot states it's not safe for people to walk. I'm going to Chicago so that isn't a factor.
Well done for participating in this forum and best wishes for the future with Motocaddy.
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