As you may know from other threads, I have been pratising like a demon for the last 5.5 weeks. My irons and short play have progressed beyond all recognition and I am now hitting around 60% gir's and up and downs have been pretty good when I have missed the green. My putting was awful last week but yesterday, I appeared to resolve the issue, I was standing too close to the ball, I was swing freely and had around 15 putts over 9 holes. I had one of my best 9 holes ever yesterday, shooting a gross 37 which is 2 over Par and 5 under my H/C. this round consisted of 2 bogeys and 7 pars.

But I still have a big issue with my driver. I have not looked at the stats yet but I suspect that fairways hit would be around 20%. I either hit a nice fade straight down the middle or a slice and either just miss the fairway, if I am lucky or in the deep stuff if I am not.

So, I was up the range as usual at lunch time and they are doing a video analysis for £5!. So I warmed up and the Pro video'ed my driver swing, nice big slice for him to analyse.. 3 glaring things came up which just showed my typical game/concentration as all 3 of these things I know are an issue but as they are not ingrained into my memory I forget them! These 3 things are a) takaway is outside, b) too long a backswing, c) shoulders open up on downswing too early. He also spotted two other things which without the video I would never have spotted a) weight is not on the balls of my feet, b) I am too far from the ball at address. So, I hit 80 balls afterwards just with the driver and just good not get a consistent strike on the ball with the new setup of slightly nearer the ball but I will continue with this as I am sure it wil be of benefit, eventually.

So can anyone give me hope in that a lesson does bring you backwards for a while but the change will pay off in the end?

Off to the course now for another 9 holes with my boy!

You sound like you have a very similar problem to me. I was told yesterday that I stand too far from the ball at address (so my arms aren't hanging down from my chest but held out in front of me). It's definitely the case.

I played with my new driver yesterday, and tried to stand closer to the ball but I too found it difficult to get used to. I don't feel despondant though... as I think it'll all come together. I did hit some superb drives yesterday... but some big ol' slices at the end. 

One thing that definitely helps me is trying to remember to begin the downswing with my arms rather than my shoulders. I'm a bit overeager with the shoulders, and this is (I think) the major contributor to my slice. 

I played a few holes last night, 1st drive low and very slightly pulled but ok. 2nd drive, pulled left and high big time! On the 3rd drive I found I had run out of long wooden tees, so I placed a shorter one just in the ground and I hit a fade straight down the middle, could be luck or could be a lower tee, dunno.

Practised at home last night with my swingsetter which felt good but obviously I have no idea where the ball would have gone!

Niblick, with my irons I believe my swing starts with my hips, it certainly feels this way when I hit a could shot. However,I think my drives start with my arms and the only thing that is in my head is to look out the corner of my left eye and see my left shoulder there and leave it there as long as possible on the downswing, when I do this the drives tend to be straight.

US, the Pro did say that I was going over the top, so I will try this at the range today if my drives are still going wayward. A couple of months ago I was hitting lovely draws because I was turning my wrists over but I found that I also had a hook occassionaly. At the moment I am trying to turn my wrists just slightly and find I am either not turning them at all or turning them too far at impact.

You know, I could always solve this issue very quickly for at least a month by running down the Pro shop and buying a new driver, that will save a lot hard work!

Birdie Boy

Perhaps the fact that I can still hit the ball reasonably long and straight with a driver at age 72 might help you with something that I concentrate on with all shots except pitching.

As you start the swing try to keep the back of the LEFT hand(I'm assuming you are not a leftie?!) facing the target for as long as possible. Forget the rest of the swing as the hands and arms will fold back automatically on your natural and individual swing plane!

AND it's standing too CLOSE to the ball you need to worry about - AFTER you've hit it

Birdie Boy: You sound like you have an out-to-in swing, which means no matter how much you work on your release, unless you change the swingpath, the best you can hope for is a fade.

The problem with this is that if you do start to release more, you will begin to pull shots straight off to the left (it causes your clubface to square up to the swingpath, and if you do that it can only go left... or even worse, a pull hook!!).

In your examples above this sounds about right (two pulls and a fade). The fade was probably just you not rotating through quite as much as the previous two.

I would have thought your pro would have worked on stopping you coming over the top. If he can get you to hit slices that start straight then he can then work on release (or grip if it's weak) to stop your shots bending to the right.

I know as well as anyone that knowing what to do doesn't mean your body will co-operate. Bloody game!!

Yeah - the draw has more prestige, maybe because a hook is the "good player's bad shot" and maybe because it rolls a bit further. But, most of us have a tendency to do one or the other. I will probably never draw the ball and I don't have any real desire to have one- as you say a slight fade will do nicely thanks.

But that isn't what I meant when I said "best you can hope for is a fade". All I was saying was correcting a path mistake with a clubface fix will probably be harder to do than tone down his path mistake a little. Toning down the severity of the out-to-in will have the knock on effect of reducing the bend to the right. It will also mean he won't have such a disastrous pull shot if he closes the clubface through impact.

Most people can't hit straight - they'll tend to draw or fade a bit. But aiming to hit straight will make that a nice little fade instead of a huge ugly slice. 

Niblick, I think you are spot on. The video clearly showed my out to in swing path even though I actually thought I was bringing it back straight or slightly in. Again, I believe you are spot on about the clubface releasing too much and getting a pull. The funny thing is that the Pro told me to stand closer to the ball and in doing this I feel that I have to do an out to in swing as there is not enough room to come in but that maybe just my belly in the way! 

On the range at lunch time I am going to go back to the advise ringer gave and that was to extend your arms through the swing after impact causing an in to out path and ending up with the elbows out in front of you at the finish. This definitely worked before but as usual with so many things in my head I forgot all about this tip.

I would have thought your pro would have worked on stopping you coming over the top. If he can get you to hit slices that start straight then he can then work on release (or grip if it's weak) to stop your shots bending to the right.

The pro mentioned that I was going over the top but this was just a video of my swing and a diagnosis, not a lesson, hence it only cost a fiver. All of my slices start straight and don't bend until about 200yds. I am not sure on my grip, I will ask them today but I feel that it is too strong and I was trying to make it weaker yesterday.

Let us know how you get on at lunchtime. I too have considered the extended arms drill but haven't tried it out with my new driver yet... so I'd be interested to know how you got on.

I've had numerous problems with my driver recently. Less than a year ago I was always "power fading" (slicing) with an out to in swing. Then I changed my swing and it became a great in to out swing with a lovely draw for a few months. Then that suddenly changed into an in to out swing with overactive hands meaning I started snap hooking everything and now I've got the hands back to being neutral I've still got a problem with an in to out swing but I'm now getting a push fade.

Playing yesterday in the quarter finals of the matchplay comp (which i won on the 18th thank god!), on the tee of the 14th I'd hit my first one so far right with a push fade I teed up a provisional only to get my overactive hands back and snap hook it so far left. Coming down the last after playing another couple of push fades I decided I needed to play with it and aimed down the left rough. I proceeded to hit a cracking push fade down the middle of the fairway to within 30 yards of the green where I chipped up and holed out for the birdie to win.

I saw my pro this morning and he's basically told me that we're going to have to change my swingpath to get it square-to-square with neutral hands, so I can see my drivings going to be all over the place for a while yet. Especially as I don't really want to be changing stuff whilst I'm about to play a semi-final at the club. I think I've just got to work with what I've got at the moment.

porky wrote (see)

I saw my pro this morning and he's basically told me that we're going to have to change my swingpath to get it square-to-square with neutral hands...

Well we'd all like to be able to do that!!

Only curious thing I noticed. You say you got your hands "back to neutral" with an in-to-out swing, but this resulted in a push-fade. This doesn't sound possible. To hit a push-fade your clubface has to be open relative to your in-to-out swingpath.

Do you mean that you are now using a "neutral grip"? The problem with the standard neutral grip (the one described in mags, books and some pros) is that it assumes everyone returns their hands to the same place at impact... which of course isn't the case. Your neutral grip is where your hands return at impact and this may be slightly different to someone else.

For example, if you naturally return your hands with your left thumb pointing slightly to the right, and you use the "traditional" neutral grip... you will leave the clubface open and fade or slice. So you'd need to strengthen your grip a little until you start drawing (you have to draw a bit if you're hitting in-to-out or you'll always be on the right side of the course).

Worth trying out a stronger grip on the range before your semi? It's easy to try and you can always abandon it if it doesn't help.

By the way, if anyone wants to read material on Ball Flight Diagnosis by genuine experts, the following two books are well worth a read:

The Only Golf Lesson You'll Need: Hank Haney

50 Years of Golfing Wisdom: John Jacobs (or any book by Jacobs)

Jacobs is the master and Haney, Tiger's coach, is a Jacobs' devotee himself. The basics of ballflight and what it tells you about swingpath and clubface angle is invaluable I find.

Of course it doesn't make my body do the right thing... but I've found understanding basic ballflight laws all very useful.

What I meant was that by keeping my hands less active (ie not turning over as much) through the impact part of my swing I'm now hitting out (in-to-out) so the clubface is open, meaning i get a push (and sometimes when its too open a fade with it). When I meant neutral hands, I just meant I'm consciously trying not to turn the over so much in the impact area.

It all sounds good when I think about it, its a lot harder to write it though!

And yes, a square-to-square with neutral hands would be wonderful!

I've got a pretty strong grip already, thats a part of the problem with my hands turning over through the swing. I really don't want to be changing my grip just at the moment with my semi coming up though. The last 4 rounds are the first time in a few months that I've played anywhere near my handicap (15) and when playing the match last night, excusing gimmies I would've played 1 under my handicap.

The thing that has got me through a difficult time with my swing changes has been my short game and putting. Last night I went round in 25 putts (inc gimmies, of which none were more than 1ft). I recently had a round of 22 putts too, so if I could actually get my driving half decent I think I could cut my handicap quite easily. I'd actually resorted to driving with my 2i for the last few rounds too, whilst losing distance on a driver, its not a lot of distance and a lot more accurate.

Fair play. Sounds like it's best left alone until you win your competion (positive thinking!!).

Good luck! 

The driver again was pretty useless, slices, pulls fades straight down the middle so I just did not know where they would go! In then I went back to my beloved 3-wood, I stood closer to my ball but had my right (back) foot slightly further back so that I was aiming slightly right, club face straight down the middle. Kept my back swing to close to parallel but never past and extended through the ball, small fade straight down the middle 8 out of 10 times. 

Went back to the driver with the same stance and swing and I just cannot seem to extend my arms through the shot, again they drive were very inconsitent and all over the place. One thing about the range, it is under a roof with poles between each bay, going upto the roof and it feels a bit small, for some reason I feel ilke I am going to swing through and smash my club into the pole on my follow through if I extend my arms! I am going to have to try again down at my club, where the range is out in the open and I can also go off the grass.

So, at the moment I am thinking that I just need to keep practising and hope it eventually comes right and in the meantime either return to my old swing or stick to the 3-wood during play. I think the 3-wood is going to win.