Interesting comment. Being amateur doesn't necessarily mean you can't see faults and prescribe action. I've had some of my best and most long-standing help from amateurs and some of the most non-sensical and destructive advice from so called pros.

The advice "Go see a pro" should come with the caveat "and make sure he or she knows what they're damn well talking about and don't want to fit you to their flavour of the month model"

Many amateurs are obsessed with golf theory and know more about swing mechanics than most pros. Why? Because we're not pros so continue to search. The pro who continues to learn is a rare beast worthy of protection.

Why do we suck? Because we swap and change and read golf magazine tips that don't suit our swing. Because we think it's more important to whack a driver for 70 balls out of the 100 bucket instead of hitting 70 wedges and chips. We don't generally realise that practicing wedges is practice for the long game.

Oh and we almost never practice our putting (my silly reason for being off 13) 

yes good comments 23rdman, I was making a general statement about the fact that many amateurs seem to be fine with getting advice from people who can't play the game itself.  There  is one school of thought that you don't need to be able to play in order to teach but why would you (not you personally) take advice from anybody that hasn't achieved a high level of skill in whatever it is you are planning to better at.  It's not quite as simple as this, but I'm of the opinion that if they know so much, why aren't they a Pro..type thing...

 Your last paragraph pretty much sums it up anyway...!

I totally understand and I take advice based on it's seeming merits. If someone appears knowledgable and offers advice that feels workable I'll try it. Especially if they communicate well. I too am wary of taking advice from all and sundry and it's a bit of a mine field doing so. Saying that I'm just as wary of taking pro advice.

 It's different for someone like me who's an anorak, but for a beginner it's hard. I feel it'd be useful if there was some unwritten rule that people get a firm foundation in the fundamentals when they 1st play. If we were taught how important they are straight off we'd not feel the need to try every tip in every magazine. 

How many times have you heard "Keep your head down" told to someone who's new to the game? The worst advice ever! 

when i was younger about 14-15 i played golf to  handicap of about 24, a friend of mine wanted to take it up, so i said ill teach him how to play. as he coudlnt hit the ball he thought i was pretty good.

i taught him all i knew and he learned fast a year later i stopped playing he carried on, and he was playing of scratch within 3 years of starting! all down to my teaching i reckon

Most pro's dont teach the individual, they try and apply whatever swing doctrine they are into at that time, to all their pupils. Their teaching isnt pupil specific.

We were talking the other day about how rarely one hears "Went to the pro for a series of lessons and am playing better than ever", its nearly always the other way round. Part of this is that the pro has changed stuff and the pupil cant be bothered to practise the changes, so ends up with a hotch-potch, and a loss of confidence.  But its also because the pro's don't teach golf, they teach swing mechanics.

But do ams teaching/helping fare any better? In general I don't think they do much worse! You can always tell if an am has advice worth listening to. The one that says "This helped me, may help you, I dunno" is prolly worth listening to as its based on actual experience and results. The one that says "you need to do it this way" should be avoided, they will spout swing theory nonsense at you, and prolly nag you until you try it.

Personally I have found the best teacher to be myself, in the sense of experimenting and finding what works best for me. I think most ams are a bit afraid of experimenting, yet once one has reasonable basics, the rest is really down to the individual. 

23rd man and Creo, wise words indeed!

My example of "method" teaching is my pet hate-Leadbetter or Leadworse- as I call him and another name from time to time to do with many young children's and old people's problems in bed.

As I have remarked before,ad infinitum ad nauseam, I have only had two golfing gurus in all my 58 years playing this wonderful and technically difficult game. Both Tom Haliburton and Peter Ballingall have been recognised as two of the finest in golf. They relied on no gimmicks and contraptions to hold the arms together or putting little wedges under the heels to push the weight forward as some do. No. they just did what they said they would-they made the very best of whatever talent their charges had however little that was. They encouraged them to have an orthodox grip, stance and takeway always making all possible allowances for any physical  difficulties they might have and were SO good at their profession that I know for a fact that golfers with knee or back problems who came to them were helped to swing well enough to greatly improve their golf without pain!

Such teachers are very,very rare and as I was privileged to play with and against some brilliant amateurs who were also extremely intelligent people who knew the mechanics of a repeating golf swing I often asked advice from them -and vice versa- and I trusted them even after Tom had died and Peter moved to Spain and I saw absolutely no need to spend loadsamoney with a pro

Boanerges(4.7) wrote (see

My example of "method" teaching is my pet hate-Leadbetter or Leadworse- as I call him and another name from time to time to do with many young children's and old people's problems in bed.

Boanerges,

Speak as you find but I've found Leadbetter's 'method' teaching very useful.

After taking the game up some 3 years ago, I've had lessons from several so called 'pros'  which usually consisted of them standing watching me for 1/2hr on the range before making some enlightening comment like 'you need to transfer your weight better'.

In desperation to finally break 90 and get my handicap in the 'teens', I enrolled for some coaching at the Leadbetter Academy at Wynyard. After a 2hr 'analysis' and 3 x fortnightly 1hr sessions I finally feel like I have some decent foundations for the first time.

It's probably true to say that the 'video analysis' has had just as much impact as the 'method' (it's the first time I've had video analysis and it's certainly easier 'seeing' your faults as opposed to being 'told' about them) but credit where it's due my game has improved substantially since getting my coaching at the Leadbetter Academy. I say coaching specifically as for the first time I feel I have a 'coach' working with me rather than some disinterested pro telling me what I'm doing wrong without offering anything constructive to help fix it.

I guess it's not for everybody and maybe his 'method' teaching is better suited to relative beginners and high-handicappers like myself but (though not cheap) I certainly feel it's well worth the money for me and I'll certainly be continuing.

Corona

As the saying goes "One man's meat is another man's poison"

In my long golfing lifetime I have known and/or known of very many excellent golfers, a number of whom you will have seen on TV playing in and winning top tournaments. All of these had particularly individual swings which very obviously were not the product of "method "teaching. They include Jimmy Bruen, Sir Michael Bonallack, Lee Trevino, Arnold Palmer, Eamonn D'Arcy, Ronan Rafferty, John Daly,Tom Watson, Fred Couples, JEEV MILKA SINGH, Jim Furyk, Sandy Lyle,Johnny Miller, Miller Barber, Billy Casper etc,etc.

In my opinion "method" teaching has knocked more talent out of potentially good golfers than ever it has helped.  

ive got a new pro he talk alot as well as teachign me and has nice philosphys, its obvious how much he loves golf. and hes of the opinon that lessons at ranges are more supervised pratice.

I have lessons rarely because I want to develop my swing with my own understanding.......... we will see if it works.......

but the best thing I heard from the pro I do have lessons off every now and then was that he had a lesson last week. I asked him why and he explained that he wanted to keep getting better and the only way to do that was get someone knowledgable to give him advice so he still has lessons.

I thought that was great, a pro who doesn't think he knows it all is a rare bird.

without reading the whole thread

i should say, the pro does have the advantage of teaching frequently and having his pupils go away and practice what he has recommended - the pro will get feedback over a period of time whearas the am advice is just along the lines of do this and it either (a works and you are declared an expert or (b doesnt work and is quickly ignored until the next nugget.

I do a bit of informal coaching mainly with friends who know my game, and respect my comments. I never say dont go to a pro, and frequently ask them them to see the club pro if it's something I cant see. One thing I will say is though, that most of the guys who ask me to look at their swings are low 'cappers i've played with for a long time. They feel that the pro is not 'there for the long term' even though ours has been there for nearly 10 years!

I think its all about trust.