I've seen quite a few threads discussing forged and cast irons, and their relative merits. Could someone quitely take me aside and explain the difference, please... thanks!
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 The theory is, Ollie, that because of the tempering process of heating and pressing a forging, the metal is more uniform in granular structure.
This means no hidden hollows or flaws that can affect the consistency of strike in cast clubs.
Forging also gives a softer feel to the club when struck out of the sweetspot.
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 Forging: Take a lump of metal, heat it 'till it gets very soft and then beat it into shape.
Casting: Heat said lump of metal 'till it's runny then pour it into a mould.
The ammount of heat applied is the main concern, because as more heat is applied the molecules move away from each other (so the metal goes soft first then runny). The more the molecules are seperated the less likely it is that they'll go back together the way they were before the heating, so there is a chance that defects in the metal could be created.
Think of a plank of wood compared to chipboard, the same sort of thing has happened to the wood but on a larger scale.
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That's v clear - thanks alot.
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 I've got a RAM forged lob wedge and I've noticed the face is starting to wear.
Do forged clubs wear out after so much use? Do they need to be replaced every so often?
I was hoping my next set of clubs were going to be forged, but if they're likely to wear out quickly then I'll get cast.
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There's no difference between forged/cast in all those non scientific golf'isms such as feelability, playability, hitability, workability.
Costability should be lower for a cast club but some makers don't play by the rules and keep them 'brand name assisted' sky high.
Forged heads are subject to wearability and rustability but score highly on poseability.
It makes no difference to your game.
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If there is truly no discernable difference between forged and cast clubs in the way they behave, why do top manufacturers go to the trouble of forging their premier products?
Titleist, Mizuno, Cleveland and McGregor to name a few.
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Mmm. I'm obviously affected by Gull - ability as well ;-)
BTW all iron is subject to wearability and rustability, but if you want a golf club head made out of a "softer" iron then it's easier to forge it, as heating will make it brittle.
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Forging requires the use of a softer steel than a casting. Some people claim that the softer steel translates into more responsive feel to the club. Others dispute that claim, and attribute the enhanced feel to the fact that most forgings are blade-like in their design and would provide feedback regardless of the process used to make them.
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Cast irons are more durable as they are harder. And made from stainless steel, they do not rust.
The flip side is that they feel and sound harder than forgings.
The material we forge from is softer than the steel we cast from, and maintains its natural grain - no air bubbles form (like casting).
Take 2 glasses of water - one fizzy, one still. Tap the glass with a metal teaspoon.
Listen to the sound. The fizzy water (cast) sounds dead, the still (forged), more tuneful.
David - Mizuno
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Nice - I'm off to get some fizzy water.
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Great thread, thanks Ollie for starting it. A lot of useful information.
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Regardless of the hardness of fizzy water compared to the slushy stuff from the tap there are some uncomfortable truths that need telling. I quote the following from swingweight.com
"The fact is, the difference between forged and cast clubs is imperceptible to even the best players in the game. Test done with tour pros using the same head designs, some cast and some forged, showed that even they could not differentiate one club from another. The difference between the two types of clubs is in their manufacture. Forgings are made from a soft type of steel known as 1030 or 8620 carbon steel. Forged clubs are stamped by incredibly large dies into their basic shapes and then are hand ground to exact size, shape and weight by skilled craftsmen. They are then chrome plated as a final step.
Cast clubs are made by pouring molten metal (typically either 17-4 or 431 stainless steel) into a mold. When the metal cools, the club is an exact copy of the mold. There is little hand work done on castings. A series of polishing belts or tumbling machine puts the finish on the cast club. If there is an advantage to casting, it is in the cost of the finished product. As there is not so much hand work, castings are less expensive than forgings. They may also be a bit more consistent from club to club as each head comes from the same mold.
Can a golfer feel the difference? Even though cast clubs are made from a harder type of metal, a human cannot feel the difference. Is there any pliability difference? Not at all. So, when shopping for clubs, do not be overly concerned with whether the club is cast or forged, but more with how it performs in your hands."
I rest my case.
In fact I advise everyone to spend the next couple of hours reading every word at www.swingweight.com
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R
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Clever people can make a case for both types of process.
But think about it.
1. One side arguing about charging premium prices for a low cost production process (casting).
2. Another arguing for a high cost production process (forging).
When the end clubs are sold at the same price. Doesn't seem there is much of a commercial case for the second argument.
That's because it is a technical one put forward by people who don't want to compromise on materials.
Another point.
Mizuno's competitors dismissed forging as an unecessary process for years.
Now look at what is happening.
Tiger demands forged irons like his old Mizuno's and suddenly everyone is making them again.
Taylor Made make forged irons for the tour.
Titleist make forged blades for the tour
Callaway are suddenly promoting the virtues of forged wedges.
Nike enter the market with forged irons.
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Finally. If the evidence isn't enouugh.
Take a forged iron and a cast iron and tell me that you cannot feel the difference.
It's like chalk and cheese.
If you're not convinced, buy some cast irons.
But don't pay for forged.
David - Mizuno.
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Bob is off to see the Ping facilities this week, apparently, and has asked on another thread for questions to put to them. Perhaps Ping could tell us what they think of the forged - cast debate.
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Remember that manufacturers make whatever the public wants to buy and re inventing a few myths helps things along nicely especially when the sales teams start pumping out the brochure quotes. At the multi company demo days I cannot tell any difference between any of the clubs. So what quality club would I choose? Mizuno forged. Why? because the mp30 looks drop dead gorgeous and because I know my wedge (of money) goes towards the clubs and not subsidising the lifestyle of a celebrity golfer (pro or otherwise). And what do I actually use? Stuck with some ancient McGreggor forged things until I improve the size of my wedge.
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R
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Final thought.
There's nothing wrong with a cast golf club.
We can even make them a bit easier to use than forged (but only a little).
I've recommended cast irons to many of my friends - those that need all the help they can get...or the ones that never get round to wiping the mud off.
Mizuno have an unbiased viewpoint - our biggest selling iron last year was the Comp CT. It's a solid iron for a sensible price.
Mizuno iron sales are split pretty evenly between cast and forged ironss
The other brands you'll speak to have to convince you that you should be paying premium prices for cast irons as they are completly reliant on them.
Last comparison:
Kangaroo leather football boots are not necessarily better than PVC on all aspects.
For some PVC is better.
But you still wouldn't expect to pay the same price.
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Thanks for the platform. I'll attempt to return to a neautral informative stance as was my intention.
This thread was too core to what Mizuno do to not put my comments in the mix.
David
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David - thanks for the response and the views on what is, after all, an important and sometimes emotive issue, given how expensive some clubs are, especially when it's not always clear why we're paying so much.
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 Thanks for your definitive contribution to the debate Dave it has been most enlightening. Incidentally, apart from one or two made by Karsten Solheim in the early days, Ping don't make forged clubs. They have their own foundaries in Arizona for their range of cast clubs, the UK plant is for assembly.
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