shortening driver shafts, effects ?

17/08/2011 at 17:03

Not realy it stiffens it more when you do the tip.

All it is likley to do is make you DownTheVERYMiddle.

17/08/2011 at 20:21
I have tried it on a couple of divers and it seemed to send the balance off as it seemed harder to get a sweet strike.

Got rid of them now and I'm hitting a standard length R9 better than ever
18/08/2011 at 19:14

A lot of fairway shafts are a driver shaft just with the tip trimed and butt trimmed to length. As already said it is tip trimming which very slightly changes the shaft flex.

The other slight effect is that it will change the swing weight which is why some might find it feels slightly different. This can be overcome by fitting a slightly heavier grip or adding lead tape at the grip end. In a driver most people would probably note notice the change.

Edited: 18/08/2011 at 19:18
19/08/2011 at 10:17
JimP (8.5) wrote (see)

A lot of fairway shafts are a driver shaft just with the tip trimed and butt trimmed to length. As already said it is tip trimming which very slightly changes the shaft flex.

The other slight effect is that it will change the swing weight which is why some might find it feels slightly different. This can be overcome by fitting a slightly heavier grip or adding lead tape at the grip end. In a driver most people would probably note notice the change.

Is it not the other way round Jim? You add weight to the head or put a lighter grip on,thats what I've been told by quite a few people.
19/08/2011 at 10:41

I shortened my driver shaft length and it's been a positive change. When I look in my bag I see that that my 3 wood is quite short but realistically the difference in shaft length is on 0.75" in length! But on both clubs I would say I have not noticed any distance issues. 

Sometimes I do get out driven by people who use longer drivers (read TM - here) but this is not frequent and the people who do it usually hit one good drive in a round and spray the rest. But if that keeps them happy then that's their choice. However I will stick with the shorter driver and play from the fairway as often as possible, besides 260 yards is not an embarassing average for a drive. 

19/08/2011 at 10:56

Hi Dandy Don,

Shortening a shaft at either end will stiffen a golf club very significantly, a 1" off the butt end will change the swingweight by as much as 6 swing weights which will make a huge difference in feel. Any time you cut down the shaft from the butt it should be swing weighted first, the change in length made and weight added to the head to bring the swing weight back up to the same as before, you can do this by lead tape placed any where on the sole, preferably towards the heel as this will increase launch angle due to the change in the centre of gravity. Srew in weights can also be used if there are weight ports in your clubhead, lighter grips will work but an 1" requires quite a lot of weight almost 12 grms, tip weights can be glued inside the tip of the shaft but no more than above the hosel. Adding weight to the head brings the flexability back that was cut off, but your right to shorten your driver, most drivers are way to long for all us amatuers, by shortening your driver you will have more chance of hitting your drives out of the middle of the clubface, you will gain back the distance and be more accurate because of this, the average driver on the PGA tour this year is 441/2", Bubba Watson the longest on tour uses a 431/2" driver, distance is 85% loft and 15% length of club.

Reagrds,

Bob Frost

Qualified Clubmaker

19/08/2011 at 11:18
Bob Frost wrote (see)
1" off the butt end will change the swingweight by as much as 6 swing weights

Shock tactics ???

I doubt most people are capable of knowing/feeling swingweight changes. Certainly many people choose drivers based on length/direction off the tee rather than the swingweight.

Edited: 19/08/2011 at 11:21
19/08/2011 at 11:44

Hi Bt,

I believe the question in the original thread was what would happen if I cut 1" off my driver, and I told him.In my experience the vast majority of people can detect a change of 2 swingweights or more, it makes a huge difference in being able to hit the ball out of the middle of the clubface or not. Have you tried it ? do you know what your driver or irons swing weight, do they match your swing speed ? Length of driver is probably the most critical factor in driver fitting and yet it is completely overlooked by the manufacturers on their demo days, because there would be to many variables and to costly to change.

Bob Frost

Proffessional Club fitter

19/08/2011 at 11:49
Bob Frost wrote (see)

Hi Dandy Don,

Shortening a shaft at either end will stiffen a golf club very significantly, a 1" off the butt end will change the swingweight by as much as 6 swing weights which will make a huge difference in feel. (not true)

Any time you cut down the shaft from the butt it should be swing weighted first, the change in length made and weight added to the head to bring the swing weight back up to the same as before, (why, if the heft is still fine for the user?)

you can do this by lead tape placed any where on the sole, preferably towards the heel as this will increase launch angle due to the change in the centre of gravity. (What about on the legal limit drivers)

Srew in weights can also be used if there are weight ports in your clubhead, lighter grips will work but an 1" requires quite a lot of weight almost 12 grms, tip weights can be glued inside the tip of the shaft but no more than above the hosel. (lighter grips do not work - anything under or above the hand does not affect weight perception - but does alter static swingweight)

Adding weight to the head brings the flexability back that was cut off, (not true - shaft frequency is hardly changed with cutting the butt end but adding weight will soften the flex)

 but your right to shorten your driver, most drivers are way to long for all us amatuers, by shortening your driver you will have more chance of hitting your drives out of the middle of the clubface, you will gain back the distance and be more accurate because of this, the average driver on the PGA tour this year is 441/2", Bubba Watson the longest on tour uses a 431/2" driver, distance is 85% loft and 15% length of club.

Reagrds,

Bob Frost

Qualified Clubmaker


What a load of baloney Bob

I'm not a clubmaker but I know guys who are and quite honestly for someone who builds clubs this is an example of the smoke and mirrors b*llsh*t that some clubfitters rely on.

Please answer a couple of questions

a) What is swingweight? 

b) Is swingweight for clubs predetermined?

c) Why is there such a thing as swingweight?

d) How will adding weight to a clubhead change the MOI - and what are the potential problems of doing this?

e) Does an antiquated method of matching heft in hickory shafted clubs of 100 years ago really stand up with the use of ultra lightweight modern shafts of today.

19/08/2011 at 12:10
Bob, by taking an 1" off I understand the swinweight will change,not wanting to mess with lead tape so if I put a winn lite grip at 25g over the standard 45g grip will this balance things out?
19/08/2011 at 12:28

Dandy don, changing the weight of the grip will only alter the static swingweight which does not mean a thing. It will change the overall weight of the club imperceptibly but cannot affect the apparent weight (heft) of the club when it is swung, because it is at the fulcrum of the lever, your wrists. Balance weight (swingweight) is a measurement taken 14" from the butt end and is just an old way of making the clubs in a whole set match.

There is no set swingweight that a club must comply with - despite what is implied. If your preferred heft (the feel of the club in the swing) happens to be C1, D1, or whatever, swingweighting was just a method of getting all your clubs to feel the same.

You don't have to have a D4 swingweight just because that is the one that manufacturers build every driver to (approximately). It is generally too hefty and the club too long for an average player.

Cutting an inch off won't change anything significant and will probably, for the average player, be a benefit.

The End

19/08/2011 at 13:39

Hi Dandy don'

Fitting a lighter grip will help but you will still be perhaps 4 swingweights short, its far easier to add weight to the sole of the driver, theres not a problem with this as it will not come off if stuck correctly and in any case all the pro's do it with all their clubs.

Bob Frost

Proffessional Clubmaker

19/08/2011 at 14:03
Bob Frost wrote (see)

 its far easier to add weight to the sole of the driver, theres not a problem with this as it will not come off if stuck correctly and in any case all the pro's do it with all their clubs.

Bob Frost

Proffessional Clubmaker


Oh - that's alright then
19/08/2011 at 14:18

whoooaaa !! Taz,

I haven't come on here to score points with people who think they know, but to help peolple from my experiences. You obviously know about swingweight as you answered some pointers in your later thread, the fact remains that if you shorten the club then it will play differently, because the SHAFT is stiffer and the only way to get the flexibilty back is add weight.It doesn' matter what we call it swingweighting or frequency matching (and yes the frequency does change dramatically cuttting an 1" of the butt) its just a measurement of matching one club so that they play the same. If you replace a regular shaft with a stiff shaft, same length same swingweight, same clubhead it plays/feels different. You go on about heft which basically is weight and if you don't change the weight the heft is the same, but in order to swing  clubs consistently with the same swing each time, as irons get shorter and therefore stiffer the headweight has to increase  so they fel the same , thats why a 9 iron head weighs more than a 3 iron head.

The swingweight scale was invented in the 1920's a good 10 years  after the invention of steel shafts, and was never primarally used with hickory shafts !!Its still what all clubmakers and manufacturers use to this day.

Adding lead to your club can make you hit it straighter and more consistently,so why not every pro on every tour does it.

Bob Frost

Proffessional clubmaker

19/08/2011 at 15:56
I can probably handle a D1 swingweight,how much weight would I need to add to the head to bring it up to D5 if needs be? (I liked the feel thats why I bought it). I would rather use tip weights than lead tape.
19/08/2011 at 15:59
......take a bundle of drivers from the pro shop, keep hittign them till you find one you like!
19/08/2011 at 16:33
Dandy don (13.7) wrote (see)
JimP (8.5) wrote (see)
Is it not the other way round Jim? You add weight to the head or put a lighter grip on,thats what I've been told by quite a few people.

My mistake.  I was thinking swing weight is relative to the head end when it is actually relative to the butt end. Taking one inch off the butt moves the head one inch closer to the fulcrum point.
 

19/08/2011 at 16:41
........surely someone will post the line about the pro saying cut 6 inches off!  The player asked if that'll help him find more fairways....the pro he doesnt know, but it'll fit in the dustbin easier!
19/08/2011 at 17:09
Bob Frost wrote (see)

Adding lead to your club can make you hit it straighter and more consistently,so why not every pro on every tour does it.

Surely it would be better if their club manufacturers got it right with all their technology. Fact is the pro's probably tweak the clubs themselves, without even thinking about S/W.


Bob, I don't want to be pedantic about this but swingweight is a personal thing.

The reason I fired up, is someone felt they needed a more wieldy driver and they wanted to shorten it and asked, would it be ok to take 1" off the butt end. I and others said yes, with the caveat that there could be a perceived weight (heft) difference.

You then implied that it was essential to restore the OEM swingweight

. . . my question is WHY?

Perhaps less heft will suit the individual and enable them to control the club better - even swing a little faster perhaps - and with a potentially faster swingspeed the last thing you need is to soften the shaft by weighting up the head.

19/08/2011 at 18:43
Can't remember the last time I saw lead weight on a tour pro's club, so to say every pro on every tour is just a tad over the top.