shortening driver shafts, effects ?

50 posts / 0 new
shortening driver shafts, effects ?

If I were to take an inch of my regular flex driver shaft from butt would it stiffen it up a bit ?

Maybe this will help...

2013 driver buyer's guide

Pure shafts - the ultimate custom fit

Not realy it stiffens it more when you do the tip.All it is likley to do is make you DownTheVERYMiddle.

I have tried it on a couple of divers and it seemed to send the balance off as it seemed harder to get a sweet strike.

Got rid of them now and I'm hitting a standard length R9 better than ever

A lot of fairway shafts are a driver shaft just with the tip trimed and butt trimmed to length. As already said it is tip trimming which very slightly changes the shaft flex.The other slight effect is that it will change the swing weight which is why some might find it feels slightly different. This can be overcome by fitting a slightly heavier grip or adding lead tape at the grip end. In a driver most people would probably note notice the change.

JimP (8.5) wrote (see)

A lot of fairway shafts are a driver shaft just with the tip trimed and butt trimmed to length. As already said it is tip trimming which very slightly changes the shaft flex.The other slight effect is that it will change the swing weight which is why some might find it feels slightly different. This can be overcome by fitting a slightly heavier grip or adding lead tape at the grip end. In a driver most people would probably note notice the change.

Is it not the other way round Jim? You add weight to the head or put a lighter grip on,thats what I've been told by quite a few people.

I shortened my driver shaft length and it's been a positive change. When I look in my bag I see that that my 3 wood is quite short but realistically the difference in shaft length is on 0.75" in length! But on both clubs I would say I have not noticed any distance issues. Sometimes I do get out driven by people who use longer drivers (read TM - here) but this is not frequent and the people who do it usually hit one good drive in a round and spray the rest. But if that keeps them happy then that's their choice. However I will stick with the shorter driver and play from the fairway as often as possible, besides 260 yards is not an embarassing average for a drive. 

Hi Dandy Don,Shortening a shaft at either end will stiffen a golf club very significantly, a 1" off the butt end will change the swingweight by as much as 6 swing weights which will make a huge difference in feel. Any time you cut down the shaft from the butt it should be swing weighted first, the change in length made and weight added to the head to bring the swing weight back up to the same as before, you can do this by lead tape placed any where on the sole, preferably towards the heel as this will increase launch angle due to the change in the centre of gravity. Srew in weights can also be used if there are weight ports in your clubhead, lighter grips will work but an 1" requires quite a lot of weight almost 12 grms, tip weights can be glued inside the tip of the shaft but no more than above the hosel. Adding weight to the head brings the flexability back that was cut off, but your right to shorten your driver, most drivers are way to long for all us amatuers, by shortening your driver you will have more chance of hitting your drives out of the middle of the clubface, you will gain back the distance and be more accurate because of this, the average driver on the PGA tour this year is 441/2", Bubba Watson the longest on tour uses a 431/2" driver, distance is 85% loft and 15% length of club.Reagrds,Bob FrostQualified Clubmaker

Bob Frost wrote (see)

1" off the butt end will change the swingweight by as much as 6 swing weights

Shock tactics ???I doubt most people are capable of knowing/feeling swingweight changes. Certainly many people choose drivers based on length/direction off the tee rather than the swingweight.

Hi Bt,I believe the question in the original thread was what would happen if I cut 1" off my driver, and I told him.In my experience the vast majority of people can detect a change of 2 swingweights or more, it makes a huge difference in being able to hit the ball out of the middle of the clubface or not. Have you tried it ? do you know what your driver or irons swing weight, do they match your swing speed ? Length of driver is probably the most critical factor in driver fitting and yet it is completely overlooked by the manufacturers on their demo days, because there would be to many variables and to costly to change.Bob FrostProffessional Club fitter

Bob Frost wrote (see)

Hi Dandy Don,Shortening a shaft at either end will stiffen a golf club very significantly, a 1" off the butt end will change the swingweight by as much as 6 swing weights which will make a huge difference in feel. (not true)Any time you cut down the shaft from the butt it should be swing weighted first, the change in length made and weight added to the head to bring the swing weight back up to the same as before, (why, if the heft is still fine for the user?)you can do this by lead tape placed any where on the sole, preferably towards the heel as this will increase launch angle due to the change in the centre of gravity. (What about on the legal limit drivers)Srew in weights can also be used if there are weight ports in your clubhead, lighter grips will work but an 1" requires quite a lot of weight almost 12 grms, tip weights can be glued inside the tip of the shaft but no more than above the hosel. (lighter grips do not work - anything under or above the hand does not affect weight perception - but does alter static swingweight)Adding weight to the head brings the flexability back that was cut off, (not true - shaft frequency is hardly changed with cutting the butt end but adding weight will soften the flex) but your right to shorten your driver, most drivers are way to long for all us amatuers, by shortening your driver you will have more chance of hitting your drives out of the middle of the clubface, you will gain back the distance and be more accurate because of this, the average driver on the PGA tour this year is 441/2", Bubba Watson the longest on tour uses a 431/2" driver, distance is 85% loft and 15% length of club.Reagrds,Bob FrostQualified Clubmaker

What a load of baloney Bob I'm not a clubmaker but I know guys who are and quite honestly for someone who builds clubs this is an example of the smoke and mirrors b*llsh*t that some clubfitters rely on.Please answer a couple of questionsa) What is swingweight? b) Is swingweight for clubs predetermined?c) Why is there such a thing as swingweight?d) How will adding weight to a clubhead change the MOI - and what are the potential problems of doing this?e) Does an antiquated method of matching heft in hickory shafted clubs of 100 years ago really stand up with the use of ultra lightweight modern shafts of today.

Bob, by taking an 1" off I understand the swinweight will change,not wanting to mess with lead tape so if I put a winn lite grip at 25g over the standard 45g grip will this balance things out?

Dandy don, changing the weight of the grip will only alter the static swingweight which does not mean a thing. It will change the overall weight of the club imperceptibly but cannot affect the apparent weight (heft) of the club when it is swung, because it is at the fulcrum of the lever, your wrists. Balance weight (swingweight) is a measurement taken 14" from the butt end and is just an old way of making the clubs in a whole set match.There is no set swingweight that a club must comply with - despite what is implied. If your preferred heft (the feel of the club in the swing) happens to be C1, D1, or whatever, swingweighting was just a method of getting all your clubs to feel the same. You don't have to have a D4 swingweight just because that is the one that manufacturers build every driver to (approximately). It is generally too hefty and the club too long for an average player.Cutting an inch off won't change anything significant and will probably, for the average player, be a benefit.The End

Hi Dandy don'Fitting a lighter grip will help but you will still be perhaps 4 swingweights short, its far easier to add weight to the sole of the driver, theres not a problem with this as it will not come off if stuck correctly and in any case all the pro's do it with all their clubs.Bob FrostProffessional Clubmaker

Bob Frost wrote (see)

 its far easier to add weight to the sole of the driver, theres not a problem with this as it will not come off if stuck correctly and in any case all the pro's do it with all their clubs.Bob FrostProffessional Clubmaker

Oh - that's alright then

whoooaaa !! Taz,I haven't come on here to score points with people who think they know, but to help peolple from my experiences. You obviously know about swingweight as you answered some pointers in your later thread, the fact remains that if you shorten the club then it will play differently, because the SHAFT is stiffer and the only way to get the flexibilty back is add weight.It doesn' matter what we call it swingweighting or frequency matching (and yes the frequency does change dramatically cuttting an 1" of the butt) its just a measurement of matching one club so that they play the same. If you replace a regular shaft with a stiff shaft, same length same swingweight, same clubhead it plays/feels different. You go on about heft which basically is weight and if you don't change the weight the heft is the same, but in order to swing  clubs consistently with the same swing each time, as irons get shorter and therefore stiffer the headweight has to increase  so they fel the same , thats why a 9 iron head weighs more than a 3 iron head.The swingweight scale was invented in the 1920's a good 10 years  after the invention of steel shafts, and was never primarally used with hickory shafts !!Its still what all clubmakers and manufacturers use to this day.Adding lead to your club can make you hit it straighter and more consistently,so why not every pro on every tour does it.Bob FrostProffessional clubmaker

I can probably handle a D1 swingweight,how much weight would I need to add to the head to bring it up to D5 if needs be? (I liked the feel thats why I bought it). I would rather use tip weights than lead tape.

......take a bundle of drivers from the pro shop, keep hittign them till you find one you like!

Dandy don (13.7) wrote (see)

JimP (8.5) wrote (see)

Is it not the other way round Jim? You add weight to the head or put a lighter grip on,thats what I've been told by quite a few people.

My mistake.  I was thinking swing weight is relative to the head end when it is actually relative to the butt end. Taking one inch off the butt moves the head one inch closer to the fulcrum point. 

........surely someone will post the line about the pro saying cut 6 inches off!  The player asked if that'll help him find more fairways....the pro he doesnt know, but it'll fit in the dustbin easier!

Bob Frost wrote (see)

Adding lead to your club can make you hit it straighter and more consistently,so why not every pro on every tour does it.

Surely it would be better if their club manufacturers got it right with all their technology. Fact is the pro's probably tweak the clubs themselves, without even thinking about S/W.Bob, I don't want to be pedantic about this but swingweight is a personal thing.The reason I fired up, is someone felt they needed a more wieldy driver and they wanted to shorten it and asked, would it be ok to take 1" off the butt end. I and others said yes, with the caveat that there could be a perceived weight (heft) difference. You then implied that it was essential to restore the OEM swingweight . . . my question is WHY?Perhaps less heft will suit the individual and enable them to control the club better - even swing a little faster perhaps - and with a potentially faster swingspeed the last thing you need is to soften the shaft by weighting up the head.

Can't remember the last time I saw lead weight on a tour pro's club, so to say every pro on every tour is just a tad over the top.

Hi Bt,Your right it was a bit over the top to say all pro's on all clubs, I meant to say most pro's on at least one of their clubs.Bob FrostProffessional Clubfitter

Hi Dandy,To answer your question you need 2 grms per swingweight, that equates to 1" by 1/2" lead tape.Bob FrostProffessional Clubfitter

Hi TazLets put you straight

Surely it would be better if their club manufacturers got it right with all their technology.       Its not in their interest to build clubs that will last a few years, how would they sell next years model if it isn't different ?Fact is the pro's probably tweak the clubs themselves, without even thinking about S/W.   Unless of course they know that 1" of lead tape = 1 swingweightBob, I don't want to be pedantic about this but swingweight is a personal thing.  I don't think I said It wasn'tThe reason I fired up, is someone felt they needed a more wieldy driver and they wanted to shorten it and asked, would it be ok to take 1" off the butt end. I and others said yes, with the caveat that there could be a perceived weight (heft) difference.   The heft or weight  in the head would not change !!!You then implied that it was essential to restore the OEM swingweight . . . my question is WHY?   Because the shaft would be stiffer and to get back to how it felt and played before weight has to be added to the head, which I believed thats what Dandy wanted.Perhaps less heft will suit the individual and enable them to control the club better - even swing a little faster perhaps - and with a potentially faster swingspeed the last thing you need is to soften the shaft by weighting up the head.    Youv'e obviously got a thing about heft which is the weight of the clubhead to give clout, adding weight would benefit as a heavier club is easier to control,swing a garden cane and then an iron pole see which you control better.

I understand what your saying Bob - don't give up, don't be put off and welcome to the forum.

Bob Frost...
Do you really believe that you can alter the CoG of a golf club by adding weight to a certain part of the club head?

How much weight do you have to add to a 200g driver head to move the CoG 1mm in any direction?

To be fair Nick,  Bob hasn't said that the cog would be changed and if you take a look at his website, he does dispel a few of those myths.My usual challenge though is against those who imply that swingweight is anything more than a technique for matching club heft.

Ok on the range tomorrow I will try 3 shafts in my R11TP  driver if I have time.I will use my Driver shaft 45.25" 3 wood  43"5 wood 42.5" and see how they feel.Interesting that the bog standard R11 driver is 45.75", I assume that is when it is hit by a robot it will go further than the TP but when hit by us mortals it will normally go further into trouble 

Sure do Ossie,If you could balance a driver head on its sole say on a centre punch, something the size of a ball point pen (there is a gadget for doing this) then mark it, then do the same on its face, where the two marks would intersect this would be known as its centre of gravity or COG. Adding weight anywhere in any direction will change this point, generally speaking the best place to add weight to a driver is on the sole and towards the heel, this draws the COG back and lower down, getting the COG lower below the centre of the golf ball (also its COG) will help get the ball in the air ( a higher launch angle) quicker and higher which is want you want. when you see screw weights in a driver the one at the back is really the only one which works, those on the side don't really do much.Hope i have explained this clearly enough, try it by taping either lead tape or a 10 pence piece with duck tape and see if it helps you,Bob frostProffessional Clubfitter

Thanks Chris,I surely won'tRegards,Bob

Hi John Foster,thats a good idea, I would be interested in your results.Bob

Bob Frost wrote (see)

Hi Dandy,To answer your question you need 2 grms per swingweight, that equates to 1" by 1/2" lead tape.Bob FrostProffessional Clubfitter

Bit confused bob,if 2g = 1 swingweight then by taking off 1" thats 12g (i think) so in theory if I fit a grip which is 12g lighter then would that not balance it out? or since the winn lite is 20g lighter have I gone 8g in the wrong direction?I think 44.5" is the optimal length for me having played it previously in a club built for me by a professional club maker at cannons court.Unfortunately the head was illegal. How much does 1" of graphite shaft weigh btw?

Bob,

OK. I accept you can move the CoG...this is after all simple physics...but how much can it be moved....how much will 10g of tape plastered on to the heel of a 200g club move the CoG by? How much do you have to move CoG by to make an appreciable difference to ball flight?

In one sentence you say the best place to add weight is on the sole and close to the heel of the club. In another you say that weights on the sides of a driver don't do much. If the weights on the sides of a club don't have any influence why do you recommend adding weight to the heel of the club?

Ok went to the range and used my driver, 3wood & 5 wood shafts.After a couple of swings with each shaft they all felt normal to me. Swing weight, What did that have to do with anything, they all felt the same. Distance wise there was not a massive amount between them. It was blowing hard from left to right so the flight and my swing made a true comparison quite hard and would be better doing that on the course but first impressions for me would be stuff the swing weight and cut 1" off your driver.DISCLAIMER (JF 13.9 can not be held responsible for any one stuffing up there driver and it's your own fault if you do it, but give it ago anyway.)

Think I agree with Taz on this one about swing weight.I attack my clubs semi regularly (particularly the driver). Shorten, lengthen, thin grip, super thick grip, change shaft - flex & weight. Never once have I measured and have only briefly considered swing weight. As long as it 'feels' OK then it's fine. There is no need to worry about getting it back to 'original'OP about stiffening up - 1" of the top won't make a massive difference to the stiffness IMO & experience. It will do something technically measureable but doubt you would feel it.Opinion on shortening - no brainer, should do it.I currently play 44 1/4" but have experimented all the way up to 46" (or 48" can't remember of the top of my head what is the legal maximum in the Rules of golf) in increments. I gained no noticable distance on the longer clubs, felt awkward(ish) and sprayed more. Shaft length has been increased so a robot can hit it further and aid claims of 'EXTRA LENGTH (shaft or hit??) & FASTER CLUB HEAD SPEED'.Around 44" is long enough to whack it out there nice and straight and in play (a must at my course). It also makes it easier to fit in the boot . Get your saw out, chop it, re-grip and give it a go. If all else fails you can extend it back out a bit.

John Foster (13.9) wrote (see)

Ok went to the range and used my driver, 3wood & 5 wood shafts.After a couple of swings with each shaft they all felt normal to me. Swing weight, What did that have to do with anything, they all felt the same. Distance wise there was not a massive amount between them. It was blowing hard from left to right so the flight and my swing made a true comparison quite hard and would be better doing that on the course but first impressions for me would be stuff the swing weight and cut 1" off your driver.DISCLAIMER (JF 13.9 can not be held responsible for any one stuffing up there driver and it's your own fault if you do it, but give it ago anyway.)

It is worth noting that the 3 wood and 5 wood shafts may well have a different shaft weight anyway. Some manufacturers opt for heavier weighted fairway shafts as compared to a driver.


pasty wrote (see)
Ossie (6.7) wrote (see)

Bob Frost... Do you really believe that you can alter the CoG of a golf club by adding weight to a certain part of the club head?

Well that's what the moveable weights do.Taz, Bob did say it would change, but I think in one of your posts you mixed up CoG with COR (page 1).

Not with COR - my biggest concern was recommending adding lead weight to a modern driver clubhead.On April 11 2006, the USGA announced that the maximum allowed MOI has been revised to 5,900 g-cm2 (32.259 oz-in2) with a tolerance of /- 100 g-cm2 . The limit is on moment of inertia around the vertical axis through the club head center of gravity.A lot of modern drivers push this limit in the clubhead - some being bang on the rules. Any additional weight added to the rear of the sole would push the clubhead MOI over the legal limit, making the clubhead illegal.A club builder should know this

I'm a fan of shortening driver lengths. Always whittle off a bit on a new driver. Ranges from an inch to 3 inches. Never did anything about swingweight, really cant see how it will make any tangible difference. My own experience is that it makes no noticeable difference to the stiffness of a shaft if you are cutting it from the butt end. Only lose carry distance when the shortening is extreme, i.e. 3 or so inches, and then maybe 10yds. But its SO much easier to control a 44 inch driver than a 47 inch one. Its reported that the average driver length on the PGA Tour is 44.75 inches, if so, that says a lot as those guys are basically paid by how far they can controllably hit it. If most of them arent comfortable hitting over 45 inch driver then why do handicap amateurs feel a 47 inch driver is the way to go?

JimPAll shafts were the projectX 5.5  62 gram shaft

Taz wrote (see)

Not with COR - my biggest concern was recommending adding lead weight to a modern driver clubhead.

On April 11 2006, the USGA announced that the maximum allowed MOI has been revised to 5,900 g-cm2 (32.259 oz-in2) with a tolerance of /- 100 g-cm2 . The limit is on moment of inertia around the vertical axis through the club head center of gravity.A lot of modern drivers push this limit in the clubhead - some being bang on the rules. Any additional weight added to the rear of the sole would push the clubhead MOI over the legal limit, making the clubhead illegal.A club builder should know this

This may kind upset the apple cart here, but have you noticed that with drivers that come with removable weights, few give limitations on the weight plug that can be applied.For example my 910D3 had a standard 7 gram weight plug but the weight kit allows you to replace it with a 12 gram weight plug. The results of such a change are quite large with regards shot shape (swing weight and heft - dunno I am a gorilla!). The point I am making is the 100g-cm2 tolerance is actually quite large and if we were to take the same club and apply 5 grams extra of lead I suspect we would still be well within the limits but affect the flight enough. I suppose the tolerance numbers are there to aid the manufacturers and with techniques now they probably get very close, but there is still a margin to add the 5 grams. I suspect some add more but personally I would look at another club head specification as clearly, if you have to bodge one so largely then it's definately not suitable. (but the last comment is coming from my experience of race car set up, where we just tweek as opposed to just chop out different springs and move ballast about willy-nilly - doing so is a clear sign that one is clueless!)  

Hi Boys,You would only want to shorten a driver in order to hit it straight and have more controll, the difference being is that you will have more chance of hitting the ball out of the middle of the clubface. You want the longest club you can manage to hit it straight down the middle of the fairway consistently, I presume you all know the consequences of using too stiffer shaft ?when the question was asked the "effects on shortening your driver" the answer is the shaft becomes stiffer, if you wanted it to play the same as before ie the same stiffness as before because you could hit it straight but without control, it is now too stiff and the only way to  regain its flexability is add weight to the head, as the preferred method of building clubs to match others in a set or replace a broken shaft is using a swingweght scale, untill something better comes along this is still the prefered method of club making, have a look at the OEM's specs.Taking a club driver or iron and adding weight by tape may definetely improve your ball striking capabilities ie. make you hit the ball out of the middle of the clubface, don't knock it if you have not tried it. It is one of the most effective methods in clubfitting, once you have the correct weght you measure the club on your s/w scales and build the club and the rest to this same weight.I have written to a friend of mine who works in R & D for one of the big companies with regard to the MOi limits question, but I suspect that as Chris says drivers and irons might not be on the limits as much as we think so there is room for adding weght. I do know that adding a few grams of weght does not alter the MOI by too much anyway.Bob FrostClubfitter

Dandy,Sorry I forgot your question dealing with the S/W debate. If you shorten a club by 1" you loose 6 swingweights, at the head end you require 2 grams per s/w, however at the grip end 5 grms equals 1 s/w weght so by reducing the grips weight by 20 grms thats only bringing back 4 s/w's your still 2 swing weghts short. confusing I know but thats golf !!Bob FrostClubfitter

Read this thread with interest as I have long considered cutting down my driver but was talked out of it by my pro.Question - what is the difference between cutting the club by and inch or so and gripping down the shaft by the same amount? Assuming that you used a thicker grip to compensate for the taper, would you still get the same benefits in terms of accuracy and consistency?CheersNick

Chris Tandy wrote (see)

Taz wrote (see)
On April 11 2006, the USGA announced that the maximum allowed MOI has been revised to 5,900 g-cm2 (32.259 oz-in2) with a tolerance of /- 100 g-cm2 . The limit is on moment of inertia around the vertical axis through the club head center of gravity.

A lot of modern drivers push this limit in the clubhead - some being bang on the rules. Any additional weight added to the rear of the sole would push the clubhead MOI over the legal limit, making the clubhead illegal.A club builder should know this

Ok Taz and you boys here is the facts about MOI limitsThe limits are as Taz writes, they are though for all clubs as manufacturedAs manufactured this means after you have purchase a club you may add weight as you like and will not break any rules.Secondly most blade irons only reach 1100 gcm2, cavity backed irons 2100 gcm2 and forged iron heads 3000gcm2, most hybrids and fairwy woods struggle to break the 4000gcm2 mark. This leaves only the driver, and with technology at present, materials and manufacturing capabilities the highest that can be achieved is 5400 gcm2, so adding a few grams of weight will make very little difference and if you kept adding weight until the 5900 gcm2 was reached you  would not be able to control it !The most forgiving drivers weighing approx 200 grms built to a swingweight of D2 to an assembled length of 45" measure to arround 5300 gcm2.Interesting to note is that the longer you make a driver the MOI drops so by shortening your driver the MOI goes up and the tolerence of off center hits increases, adding a little weight in order to maintain a reasonable swing weight again increases The MOI so going shorter is a defiinite win/win situation.Bob FrostClubfitter

Nickdebug,It just goes to show what some golf pro's know about clubs and clubfitting, there is not a club maker in the world who would not advocate shortening a driver in order to maintain accuracy.Fact. When the US Open was played at Bethpage some years ago the fairways where cut to some 20 paces in width in places, the first thing most pro's had done in the tour vans was to shorten their drivers and increase the lofts !!!Bubba Watson was asked by Ping this year to enter the world long distance driving championship, he refused as he said that in order to compete he would have to use a 48" driver and that would compromise his swing for the tour, his driver is currently 43 1/2" long.Gripping the club down does work for some but many find it difficult, plus a thicker grip lowers the swing weight, if you shorten a club in order to play with the same flexability as before you would have to add weght at the head end.Bob FrostClubfitter 

Depending on your level of ability and your age/physical fitness, shortening a driver or fairway wood down to even a 40 or 39 won't send the club in an off balanced feel or results. That's really a bogus statement. If you are short, like I am, you can't hit a long driver or long fairway wood shaft with the precision that you can with a hybrid or iron (both with much shorter shafts than standard drivers and fairway woods). It's a cheap try and see method to find out if you can benefit from a shorter shaft. Pick one, I'd stay away from the driver if you are a bogie or higher handicapper and pick up your 3 wood and have it re-shafted (unless the existing shaft is suitable for a clipping) and have it cut to be equal to the best hybrid or long iron in your bag. If you don't have a hybrid or long irons start off with this equation. If your wrist bend is 36 inches or less from the floor, get your 3 wood cut and re-gripped to 40 inches and give it a try. Use it on every tee shot and fairway shot you can utilize it's reach/distance on for a whole round of golf. You may find you have sacrificed 10 or 15 yards at first but you will be in the fairway almost all of the time. If you see you are now hitting a slight draw, aim for the right side of the fairway (if you are right handed) at a point/distance that you believe your ball will be hit and see if that doesn't get you some help from the slight draw with the added bounce and roll. You may end up with equally long shots with this shortened 3 wood as you would have had with a driver but you'll be in the fairway all the time which will net you several strokes over an 18 hole round, at least for most of us bogie handicappers and higher. Lots of lower handicappers don't like to do this and will fight to the19th hole against it. But if you are looking for some assistance in getting a great tee shot and great fairway shots and staying in the fairway, give it a try. Remember, every golfer is different, what works for peter won't necessarily work for paul. But if it works for you then you may be able to ignore the hardest club in the bag to hit long and straight (the driver) and become a better golfer. You can actually take a half a dozen strokes off your game by simply being in the fairway on every shot. You drive for show, you pitch and putt for dough. Stephen

Bob, no one HAS to add weight to the club head. If the club feel is okay with them then it's okay with them. No rules that the AR/USGA affect weekend players. I have never seen a player on a public or private course play by the rules, 100%. That's a pipe dream. People improve their lie, take mulligans, don't count lost balls, etc, etc, etc. It's a GAME. When one of use here actually start playing the PGA tournaments then they'll have to start complying. Till then it's a GAME. Something one should enjoy and make every effort to make their equipment do for them as much as humanly possible. IMHO

By eck old man, a bit of common sense, your right 90% of "weekend hacker" and that is pretty much everyone who plays for fun as opposed to playing for money "bends2 the rules" a bit. As long as it is not blantant "cheating" most playing partners will and do turn a blind eye. As for shortening drivers,   ..... yeh, most hackers would benefit from a shorter shaft lenght, over the years I've been using a combination of driving irons, 3 woods and "chopped down" drivers, I'm rarely the longest driver of the group, but I'm the one who is exploring the undergrowth the least too. As far as scoring is concerned I am inconsistency personified but using broadly your method I have had some seriously good scores,   ...... I can and does work,   ......... at least for me.    

Going back a bit, but i've seen many pro's with lead tape all over there irons, especially when switching manufacturer... Ernie els switching to Callaway from taylor Made springs to mind, they get them to a weighting they like then the manufacturer takes them away and makes them again minus the tape... not sure that service is available to us!!! Ps. all that bob has said was backed up by the guy i go to, and he does woosie's and peter baker's club (Roger Morton)

I'm a 10-handicap and play Wilson D-100 irons, which I love.  However, I don't love the sand wedge that came with the set and Wilson doesn't make a D-100 lob wedge.  I'm using a Ping G30 sand and lob wedge but the weight difference is pretty substantial.  I read Bob Frost's posts about how cutting length off the butt would lighten the club but adding weight to the head would defeat the purpose in this case.  (The purpose being to get the Pings more in line with the lighter D-100s.)  Is there any way I can lighten the Pings without negatively affecting the clubs?  TIA for any thoughts.