Sureshot GPS Owners - A Warning!

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Sureshot GPS Owners - A Warning!
YOUR UNIT IS NON-COMPLIANT - EVEN UNDER LOCAL RULE!

I thought I'd put that in caps to get your attention..but it is true.

A fellow forum member and I were discussing the ability of the Sureshot to measure and then recommend clubs..and whether this was legal. Anyway, he emailed the R&A

"Can I ask a rules question please?

Certain GPS devices have the ability to measure, record and save your typical shot distance with each club and, subsequently make suggestions during the course of play as to which club the player should take for his next shot.

Are such devices in breach of the suggested local rule covering the use of artificial measuring devices (as they are able to measure something that might affect the play of the golfer)?

Do such devices that offer club selection advice breach the rule relating to players receiving advice?"


To which he received the following reply

"Dear Mr Xxxxx
I refer to your e-mail below and I would advise you that the additional

This is what happens when the R&A do not make a straightforward decision.Measuring devices should be banned - full stop! Same as 'hot' drivers - should have been banned at the same time as the USPGA.T!ts!

I agree. GPS and other such measuring devices should be banned outright and not left to the local Rules brigade.

Measuring devices should be banned - full stop! Does that go for caddies, yardage markers & cards as well?

I agree with Mike on this. What is the reasoning behind banning them?

They shouldn't necessarily be banned, but the R&A must remove the choice by local rule and either legalise or ban.

John, I'm afraid your "warning!" is 2 days out of date. Tee2Green, the makers of SureShot, released a software update on 2nd May that means "Club recommendation can now only be enabled from sureanalysis [the PC application]".If the feature is disabled before the stipulated round the device is now - subject to the local rule - as legal as a Skycaddie (though not as accurate).Release notes can be found here http://www.tee2greengps.com/support/sureshotgps_release_notes.html

Hmmm..I'm not sure about that.That feature is not very descriptive. It *suggests* that the feature can only be turned on from the Sureanalysis software application.So what? If all they have changed is how the feature is enabled..surely, the same rule applies?Also, haven't they just made it almost impossible to enforce this restriction?It would be necessary to check the firmware version of the unit..and then verify the feature was disabled. I suspect that will be too much bother for most clubs and they will choose to turn a blind-eye to it, or ban the Sureshot completely from competition rounds!

As I originally publicly posted my email and Claire Bates' response over at Moongolfer I'm happy to be identified as the originator of the email quoted by John.If Motocaddy can get away with applying a sticker on their S3 LCD display to cover up the temperature gauge then I reckon Sureshot have an equally valid solution in disabling the club selection feature by using the Sureanalysis software.I think that all we need to do is wait for the 2008 - 2011 rule book to appear and all the confusion and doubt about Distance and other artificial measuring devices will be cleared up.

Personally, I think this is pretty petty. You still have to hit the shot. I have yet to hear of one of these things hitting the shot for you. Wind and slope are two other things that you have to consider once you know distance. Even if the sureshot does recommend the club, it's basically you making the recommendation because you have to set it up. I am in the market for one of these and I can't decide b/w the Sureshot or the Skycaddie. Does anyone have a useful opinion b/w the two. Thank you!

I have upgraded to a Sureshot and have never used/enabled the club selection facility. I would not even bother with a GPS device club suggestion feature, even if it were allowed by the R&A, as there are too many other variables like shape of shot, wind, slope, lie, temp etc to factor into the club selection.It doesnt take long to get to know your own yardages anyway so I cant see it being of much use.

I dont know why some people are so strongly against these devices. If an individual wanted, they could make themselves a measurement book which does almost the same job. I could easily have a yardage book which gives me 50 different yardages per hole so basically I will know the distance for every single shot - just as with a gps device. The only difference is that it does not need the same preparation with the gps. In fact by using the GPS, an individual does not need to spend several minutes looking for the various trees, bunkers, markers etc. from which his yardages have been measured.

Id have no objection quicker than pacing out from yardage markers so in effect saves time. Wouldnt help me anyway as I never hit my clubs the same distance every time anyway.

Something stating a matter of "fact" ie yard should be allowed! It speeds up play, saves nutters endlessly pacing distance off sprinklers and landmarks or spending ages gawping at the yardage book!Something saying "hit 7 iron" is quite different!(Skycaddie user...they a bloomin good!)

Does sky caddie take into account wind speed wind direction hard ground soft ground etc Ive never used one. My mate who I played with told me to hit an 8 iron at par 3 the other day hit it through the green by 30 yds !

No... and neither does it swing the club for you!

So why is it such an advantage if it doesnt take any of these factors into account

I trialled a Skycaddie SG4 a couple of weeks ago and was very impressed with it. It certainly takes out the need for pacing to & from the 150 yard markers. If my club would issue pin positions it'd be even more useful. I suspect I'll end up buying one even though Hell would have to freeze over before my club will allow them in comps.

The Skycaddie is without doubt the BEST range finder on the market, why do you think its the official rangefinder for the PGA and used on the EuroProTour!!I have had one for ages had an SG2 and now the new SG4 these units are accurate very accurate!I notice that they are adding over 100 courses a month to their site, just come back from Spain, downloaded four courses and was able to play in Yards and not Meters it was awsome.

I went to Carnoustie this year and saw a lot of players and their caddies using another GPS product called caddyaid.Notable users were people like Darren Clarke and his caddy as well as Richard Green who equalled the course record on the last day.I actually got talking to the person representing the company and he showed me the Carnoustie course, and I was blown away by both how easy ot was to use and also its accuracy, not withstanding the amount of info it provided.After looking at their website, it seems to offer a multitute of information tio the golfer, as well as showing an aerial photograph of the hole.I would say that the CaddyAid golf GPS product exceeds both Skycaddie and Sureshot by at least as far as Tiger whollops his drives.

Not sure I'd want to pay nigh on £400 for a GPS only to be bombarded by advertising;"In total there are 18 adverts on the device, with each advert being shown when the player changes from one hole to another."Skycaddie is by far the best as they're the only ones who physically map the courses.  Shame they don't have more courses mapped.

Just read your Post on Forum Colinski, since your posting Skycaddie have added at least another 200 courses, how do I know that? I have been talking to them at their UK office, at this time the guy there tells me they are mapping in the UK, Sweden,Denmark,Italy, Spain,Portugal and Mallorca, later they will be in Turkey,Dubai,France and Germany at the rate of about 140 courses a Month.They are fully aware that other GPS systems claim to have more UK maps than them but they say that in time these systems will be be found to be too inaccurate as most of them are now. Just think about how many courses change their layout, albeit a bunker,lake or move a Green, Skycaddie work with the Club and will go and upgrade, the other systems wouldnt even know where the course was, they didnt go there in the first place and the maps that are available to them will only get updated now and then, the last one was updated in 2000 that is the maps they are using now, I know because I had a Sure Shot before I changed to Skycaddie, they even admitted it to me but wouldnt give me my money back!! so I sold the thing on ebay.If you need a course mapping or want to know where they are mapping give them a call I am on first name terms with them and they always try to get courses mapped as soon as possible.

Are these GPS Systems not the same as a bait boat to a carp angler??Taking away a fundimental part of the game!I'm all for help on the course but this seems like cheating.

In what way does it "seem like cheating" any more than course guides, yardages on the score card, 150 yard markers and directions to the next tee. Pro's map the course and - more importantly - greens in infinitesimal detail in their practise rounds. Is that cheating too? Personally I play as well (or poorly) with or without mine. The main benefit for me is that it speeds up play as I don't have to pace out distances.I have asked Skycaddie to map courses as have my friends and I know they've recently done some of the courses we play. I also appreciate that it takes time as its more labour intensive. Oddly enough, I was just looking as the new SG5 on the Skycaddie (US) site. I see it can be pre-ordered from 118golf. Must resist, must resist.....

Out of Bounds, you are out of touch, as agolfer you need to know how far the target is, most courses give you as many clues as they can with markers or the good old Stroke Saver, these are all to help you with your yardage.Have you ever seen a pro without a caddy, do you think that good low handicap golfers guess how far they have to the green??Do you think you can improve your own handicap without knowing how far, and if you dont know how far how can you know which club?All golfers need to now how far, and if a small hand held device can give that information it cannot be deemed as cheating any more than the guy who thinks he can buy the game buying the latest biggest most forgiving driver,especially as we all should know that all he will achieve is a few extra yards into the rough most of the time, and in the same way the yardage device can give the information but it cant hit the ball for you, or direct the ball to the correct target, but it can speed up your game, give you confidence in club selection and confirm how far you acctually hit the ball.Lets hope the PGA and the R&A get behind rangefinders and stop this constant debate,lots of clubs are introducing the local rule to allow rangefinders and I see the PGA have adopted the Skycaddie as its official rangefinder, that is all good enough for me.

I'm looking at buying the sky caddie SG5. I was previously drawn to the sureshot as it has the ability to record shot information. But for course detail the caddie seems the best bet. The only worry being the lack of courses at the momentMy question is where and when to buy it. The golf show is on at the NEC next weekend, will these devices be there does anyone know ?

I have a sureshot, purchased on EBaY  from the USA , went great for 2 months. Now it wont start, Does any body repair these items ? or now where I should go for repair ?

I know that one (the only?) of the UK distributors is Golf PlusGolf Plus Contact

I know John posted this thread up about 18 month ago, but I thought I would point out that we are now the distributors of the brand new Sureshot 8800 GPS rangefinder and the club recomendation feature has been taken off the product.  Therefore the Sureshot 8800 is compeltely legal for use in competitions where the local rule allowing distance measuring devices applies.Rod BrownManaging DirectorMotocaddy Ltd.http://www.motocaddy.com/sureshot

Missed this thread last year... can't believe the R&A are so stupid..
It's ok to say 135 yards to the pin and you look at a card which tells you your club should be a 9 iron but the device to tell you a 9 iron is not ok ? Also it's ok to pay someone as a caddy to tell you a 9 iron ?
Bunch of dimwit luddites at the R&A perhaps just trying to maintain the role of a caddy....

Rod,It's good to learn that Sureshot have recognised a potential rules issue with their unit and have addressed it accordingly.Also good to see that Motocaddy are not resting on their laurels and diversifying!Now eagerly awaiting the Motocaddy S4, where the digital display unit has been replaced with a Sureshot 8800

That's complete rubbish about the advertising between holes. I have a Sureshot 8800 and it's superb. A mate of mine has a Sky Caddie and there is nothing between them. Would recommend this item to anyone looking for a golf GPS.

JC wrote (see)

Now eagerly awaiting the Motocaddy S4, where the digital display unit has been replaced with a Sureshot 8800

 Blimey..I've just noticed that I wrote this last September and lo and behold..the Motocaddy S5 HereRod..do I get any sort of commission/consultancy fee??

I hear that there is a new GPS unit heading for the UK - GolfBuddy.  No annual fees and free down loads.  Saw them in the US and they said they are launching soon.  Might be intresting

hmmm, I brought the Sureshot and found the Customer Service somewhat lacking.I'm quite social in the summer, playing at several local courses as well as my own so decided to upgrade the membership so I could install about 10 professionally mapped courses.Depsite my course having the word "Lakes" in it, they somehow managed to miss a 50 Acre lake of the map, and probably 2/3rds of the bunkers and every measurement was about 7 yards out (playing off 22 that's probably not that important) - not very professional.I emailed Sureshot (rather than Motocaddy) and had no response. Having paid out £200 for a unit I didn't want to carry a useless brick around with me so decided to map the course myself.I've also found the battery doesn't last 2 rounds as promised, I take more shots than most but aren't that slow On a positive note, Mapping was very easy - and has helped my game massively. Knowing the precise distances has given me much more confidence when approaching the green.I just hope that my course is a one off, if I find all courses are poorly mapped I'll be a bit hacked off!

I have the skycaddie sg5 and think its great ,it def speeds up the time to play a round as i no longer have to find the bloody sprinklers but can just glance at my bag.Also the customer service is pretty good and if you have a course that isnt mapped just letem know and write to the club and i will almost guarentee its on in weeks great

Hi,

I'd like to encourage anyone who needs any customer support on a Sureshot unit to contact us (Motocaddy) as we're the distributor for Europe and we will respond very quickly. Sureshot themselves are based in Australia.

http://www.motocaddy.com/sureshot

I have the same experience as RELOADER - but with the GolfBuddy.  Not being very technical the courses are already pre loaded, which saved me a hassle and I don't need to tell it which course I'm on, it finds me.  Simpler the better for me.

Chuse said I hear that there is a new GPS unit heading for the UK - GolfBuddy.  No annual fees and free down loads.  Saw them in the US and they said they are launching soon.  Might be intresting.Chuse I went on their website the other day to check out any corses they had not one in the South west of Scotland where I live and not that many anywhere else Saw it on sale at £300 thought it was a bit expensive for what it is

Just seen a Skycaddie SG2.5 for £150 seems a great buy to me.Cant be that many improvements on the new SG5 or is there?

Also just seen this  you can store all your downloads on your pc so once purchased they are there for keeps.Bushnell yardage Pro GPShttp://www.golfmagic.com/images/spacer_1.gifThe Bushnell Yardage Pro GPS Available in Grey & Orange or Black & SilverFor the golfer who wants to know the distance to the front, center and back of the green, it doesn't get any simpler. It's all in the Bushnell Yardage Pro GPS, at a single glance. It can even measure your driving distance. Partnered with iGolf to offer the largest, most accurate golf course database in the world. Recently voted by UK Golf magazine Golf World as one of the easiest units to use out of 8 products tested.The Bushnell Yardage Pro GPS Features: Simple one-touch buttons allow quick and easy access to information Easy to read outdoor LCD screen with backlightDisplays distance to the back, center, and front of the green Ergonomic design allows for easy one-hand operation Small and lightweight (only 140grams), fits in shirt pocket Displays the strength of the signal the unit is receiving from the GPS satellite given your current location Battery indicator displays the life of the lithium-ion battery, last up to 15 hours, specifically designed for golf, 20 channel reciever with 10 second hot start Auto shut off, goes to sleep after 30 minutes of inactivity Memory capable of storing up to 10 courses Scorecard with course information Bag belt and clip Reads distance in both yards and metres Weather resistance, this product is made for the outdoors Comes complete with 1 free download trail from Igolf.com and for $39 charge you get up to 100 additional course. You store the downloads on your PC unlike some other GPS competitors.Free C&P on this product http://www.golfmagic.com/images/spacer_1.gif£138.95

roman wrote (see)

Just seen a Skycaddie SG2.5 for £150 seems a great buy to me.Cant be that many improvements on the new SG5 or is there?

SG5 is in colour - does the 2.5 have intelligreen? the Sg5 does

sg 2.5 is black and white.sg.5 has 3D putting greenappears to be the only differencesexcept for the price

Only difference's between the two is the SG.5 has a Larger colour screen!Oh and £100 Dearer  Both have Intelligreen facility

Thanks boys, do you know anything about the Bushnell yardage pro GPS?

Have done a phone round several clubs in the Dumfries  area none of whom allow GPS so wont bother buying,that solves that.

Hi All i just brought a sureshotgps 8800 it seems okay to me.I spoke to theoffice before I brought it and was told all down loads on the 8800 would stay on even after the year is up

I use the SonoCaddie v300 and have found it excellent.I went for it because there is no annual subscription fee - it's a one off payment for course downloads for life - and even that was waived when I bought mine.I had read (on this forum)  that the SkyCaddie will delete stored courses once your annual subscription expires if you don't renew. So if you always play just a few courses you can't just download them and then not renew the subscription the following year. Which I think is a rip off.Having said that their mapping is meant to be the best. The CaddyAid looks great but isn't waterproof which ruled it out for me in the UK although you could always buy a ruggedised PDA and the CaddyAid software to install on it. Probably a pricey option though.

I read on another golf forum that many of the ex military GPS satellites will be coming out of orbit in 2010 due to wear and tear. This will cause alot of probs for car sat navs, the military, golfers etc....or maybe its just an excuse to renegotiate the price for users so they can relaunch replacements into space...dunno

Hi gents.  I have been following the GPS thread, all very interesting.  Personally I have a GolfBuddy, which I enjoy using.  Nice and easy with loads of courses and non of the annual subs fees mentioned earlier.   Intersting point by Just Pured - could this spell the end of GPS........