Bunker rake.

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01/05/2011 at 12:20
Playing in a mixed doubles comp at Newquay yesterday (alternate shots) the Lady we played against drove into a fairway bunker only for the ball to stop just short of the sand as someone had left the rake out of the bunker by about 2 inches, the guy marked the ball then removed the rake and the ball rolled down the slope into the bunker, he dropped it twice and it rolled in again then he said he couldnt place it on the downslope as it would roll in again and went a club length back to a flat lie having a better stance and promptly hit a good shot. Was this the correct procedure?
DH
01/05/2011 at 13:03
It is not mandatory to mark the ball.

As the ball (seemingly) was not actually on the rake then he should have simply removed the rake.

If that causes the ball to move it must be replaced (not dropped). 24-1a

If it was in fact on the rake, the ball should have been lifted and the rake removed. The ball must be placed (not dropped) on the spot immediately under where it lay. 24-1b

In both cases, if it won't come to rest it must be placed on the nearest spot where it can be placed at rest not nearer the hole. 20-3d(i) 

Loss of hole for a breach of rule 24.

01/05/2011 at 13:23
Cheers HD, i thought at the time that taking a club length away from the bunker was a bit generous, but you live and learn eh, we halved that hole so a win would have given us a chance as we lost by 1 hole to a half an the last....
01/05/2011 at 13:33
who is HD ?
01/05/2011 at 17:09
so if your ball wont come to rest when placed and you have to proceed to nearest point could this be that you could end up placing in a hazard as this is the nearest spot where your ball will rest???
01/05/2011 at 17:26
No. Only if your ball was in the bunker in the first place.

20-3 d (i)
20-3 d (ii)
Edited: 01/05/2011 at 18:43
DH
01/05/2011 at 19:34
scazzer wrote (see)
so if your ball wont come to rest when placed and you have to proceed to nearest point could this be that you could end up placing in a hazard as this is the nearest spot where your ball will rest???
As niblick says but it also has to be 'not nearer the hole'.
01/05/2011 at 19:41
Ok cheers for explaining much appreciated
03/05/2011 at 15:27

By the way - I believe the R & A recommend that rakes should be left OUTSIDE bunkers

After much consideration they felt that a rake in a bunker was more likely to interfere with the ball and unfairly penalise the player - ie it coming to rest on a slope - rather than rolling to a flat spot of the bunker

As in the example above the fact the rake was outside the bunker did not penalise th player and he was able to play the ball from where it had come to rest

03/05/2011 at 20:29
I think you are right - although my club specifically asks for rakes to be left head in the bunker and the end of the handle just on the edge.
DH
03/05/2011 at 22:38
I hate it when I officiate at a course that does that. I don't like penalties that the player has no control over and can easily be avoided..
03/05/2011 at 22:57
I've no idea why we are asked to do it that way - I must find out.
03/05/2011 at 23:19
niblick wrote (see)
I've no idea why we are asked to do it that way - I must find out.

So the greenkeepers don't have to get off their vehicles every time they get to a bunker when they're cutting the grass - fact!

I agree with DH, it's a complete pain in the arse when rakes are left in bunkers from a playing point of view, the ONLY reason to leave them in is to help the greenkeepers - tail wagging dog eh???

Edited: 03/05/2011 at 23:19
04/05/2011 at 10:07
But now that a lot of courses have ride on bunker rakers surely they would prefer the rakes to be OUTSIDE of the bunkers
04/05/2011 at 13:14

Do away with club provided rakes altogether and make every player carry a telescopic handled lightweight rake in their bag.

Lots of players are happy to carry telescopic ball retrievers and spend time fishing every time they pass a water hazard....cant see why they wouldnt be agreeable to carrying a lightweight rake.

I can see myself setting up a buisness selling "Tour Issue" rakes with Lime Green spined and flo'd shafts, with ultralight carbon fibre heads.

04/05/2011 at 13:21

Played at Dudley golf course recently, and there was a bucket full of rakes at the 1st tee. You had to take one rake out per group. I imagine it was to stop local youths nicking them.

Seemed to work ok.

04/05/2011 at 14:25
Dermot ;0) wrote (see)
Playing in a mixed doubles comp at Newquay yesterday (alternate shots) the Lady we played against drove into a fairway bunker only for the ball to stop just short of the sand as someone had left the rake out of the bunker by about 2 inches, the guy marked the ball then removed the rake and the ball rolled down the slope into the bunker, he dropped it twice and it rolled in again then he said he couldnt place it on the downslope as it would roll in again and went a club length back to a flat lie having a better stance and promptly hit a good shot. Was this the correct procedure?
So, without trying, he reckoned he couldn't place the ball... then went back a club length, which may have been further back than where the ball could be placed...
Is that not a breach of rule 24 and loss of hole...
DH
04/05/2011 at 22:15
See post # 2
04/05/2011 at 22:58
I had a look today at the notice in my club which asks us to place rakes in bunkers with the head in the bunker and the handle just on the edge. It quite clearly says this is in line with the R&A recommendation that rakes should not be left wholly out of the bunker. The notice is dated 2002 so perhaps the R&A advice has changed?

The reasoning given for this method is that this is the least likely way to interfere with the ball - which makes sense to me provided the rake is placed on the front of the bunker and in line with the hole. If however it is left at the side it can too easily catch and hold a ball on the slope which otherwise might have rolled down.
Edited: 04/05/2011 at 23:00
06/05/2011 at 09:31
niblick wrote (see)
I had a look today at the notice in my club which asks us to place rakes in bunkers with the head in the bunker and the handle just on the edge. It quite clearly says this is in line with the R&A recommendation that rakes should not be left wholly out of the bunker. The notice is dated 2002 so perhaps the R&A advice has changed? The reasoning given for this method is that this is the least likely way to interfere with the ball - which makes sense to me provided the rake is placed on the front of the bunker and in line with the hole. If however it is left at the side it can too easily catch and hold a ball on the slope which otherwise might have rolled down.


Surely this is the worst possible place to leave a rake?

My ball lands short of the bunker and rolls in from the front edge - it then hits the rake head which is resting on the downslope - thus leaving me with one of the hardest bunker shots there is

Brilliant idea!!!!

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