No Return Cards in Medal

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No Return Cards in Medal
Pretty new to golf - a quick query. In the recent Medals at my course I have noticed that there are always a significant number of no-return cards on the results sheet. I would think you would nearly always be able to put a score against a hole, as you would always hit a provisional when you thought the first one may be lost. What are the rules/etiquette regarding this issue and can N/R's be used by unscrupulous players to protect their handicap?!!

Well i played about three medals last year through injury - but thats changing this year!I put 2 n/r in - but this was down to shooting way over my handicap by the 13th/14th. It didn't feel right though.Anyway my handicap went up by 1 as a result (rightly so to).I've no time for people who do this to massage their h'caps - they're cheating themselves and any victories must be hollow - how do they sleep at night?Best practise must be to play all your shots to get a true reflection of your game.Although there maybe cases when play is slow and a player feels he's better off walking to the clubhouse with a n/r for everyones benefit ??? It could become a nasty habit though!Besides i played in a medal my first year and shot 10 over for the front 9, thought i'd completely blown it, relaxed and shot +1 for the back 9!!! (I was off 27 then)

Usually from what i have seen, Were cards havent been returned, the players has had a terrible round, had to leave the course or injured themselves.If you were to put a N/R for a hole on stroke play, i would think you would be disqualified for not finishing a hole.In Stableford it is considered good etiquette to pick up and put n/r for the score when you can no longer score any points.In terms of handicap protection, its usually the unscrupulous players protecting the handicap from going down not going up and if you had such a terrible round and didn put your card in you would stopping yourself from getting 0.1 back on your handicap.I carnt see many people playing very well in a medal competition (say 4 or 5 under there handicap)and being in with a shout of winning and not handing the card in to protect their handicap.But then again, i dont know some of the lenghts people will go to stay off a higher handicap

Agreed, I was thinking this could be abused by people trying to keep an impressively low handicap rather than the other way about.

I find some people start badly, realise they've no chance of placing in the comp and then walk in and NR - very bad form to your playing partners as far as I'm concerned.

I have NR'd in competition - usually when the round is in bits anyway and the ball that appeared to be safe from the tee could not be found, after walking the 300 yards to it :-)Same result .1 added to h'cap, so whats the diff. - how can you 'protect' a h'cap by NR ing?

....walking off is another issue - I've never done that. Not when you have a responsibility for marking someone elses card - bad form!

Thanks Taz - As I said, pretty new to golf and didn't realise you could not go up by more than 0.1 whatever you scored. As a newcomer to all this, it seems strange that you can be cut by 1 full shot by shooting one good round but then take 10 terrible rounds to get back to the same place.Where is the logic in that?

Cliff, the logic is that the handicap is a guide to your *potential*, not the score you expect to make every time you go out.

Times I have NRd have beenAfter the 6 hole completed and already 10 over two stroke penalty after drive on the 7th tee for hting my equipment.After losing a golf ball late in the round and the score is such that going back to play another is not worth the effort

Thanks for all the feedback.So is it fair to say that the only real excuses for a n/r are [1]. if you hit your drive, think you will find it, then don't and it would cause inconvenience to the whole field by going back to the tee? [2]. you injure yourself [3]. You remember you are due at the church for your wedding that afternoon?!!!Otherwise, In essence, you need to stay out there to mark your playing partner's card anyway, and the net effect on your handicap is plus 0.1 whether you N/R or you shoot 150! - so you might as well mark your card in the same way a professional would have to do in a tournament.Am I also correct in saying that you should always return your card to the club whatever happens?

Yep - spot on

Just to be clear, high scores on a single hole for handicap purposes only count as the score where you would get a blob at Stableford eg, you have a shot on a par 4 and shoot a 9, this counts as a 7 for handicapping.I have seen a case where someone had an 11 on a par 5 and a overall nett 74, CSS 72, getting a handicap cut.

Spot on TGSI was once cut 2.1 with a 10 on a par 4 and a 8 on a par 3.

Congu rules state that your score goes up 0.1 if you NR. At our club they ask people to complete their round even if they have a diabolical hole, as you can still protect your handicap by playing well on all the other holes, as 1 bad hole only counts as a double bogey for handicap purposes. Additionally, by not handing in a card you automatically help keep the CSS higher than it should be.

I know a lot of golfers who take pride in the fact that, regardless of how bad the score, they have never NR'd. Personally I try not to NR but have done so and believe it can be the best course of action. Particularly with regard to pace of play and consideration to your playing companions. I have NR'd twice when I have been scoring badly, spraying the ball but one of my partners has had a good knock going. I figure I'm going 0.1 all day and he doesn't need the distraction of me chopping it round.Funniest I've heard was a young guy at our place he NR'd after the first hole of a 36 hole comp. I can't remember all the details but it had gooten to something silly like 12 off the tee and his handicap was only 4. He still played and was level par for the next 17.

Bognorbelter,<<Congu rules state that your score goes up 0.1 if you NR. >>This isn't strictly the case as there are exceptions in the decisions section: http://www.congu.com/decisionPage.asp?id=99&parent=33&pid=99decision 4<<(c) Since an incomplete card and a No Return may have the effect of increasing a player

myself and about half a dozen other members have just been banned from next weeks competition for Not returning cards to the clubhouse after a medal round - (in my case my card was ripped up on the 2nd) should we assume from this that the H/C sec believes we are "massaging" our h/cs to our advantage? i'm a 9 hc who does ok and this really annoys me as i play almost every week in every comp and i thought it was a golfers right to tear up a card. incidentally i would never walk off the course as that would be plain rude . . . . kinda like implying foul play. damn bumptious officials i will be looking for a new club out of principal.

I guess the question is "why rip up your card on the 2nd hole?"

Winksey,As BoB says, why rip up yur card?Even with a really bad hole on you card you can still get a handicap cut under stableford equivalent rules and I've see this happen on numerous occaisions.

ah , well i hit a monster drive and should have had an eagle chance on the first which i f****d up like a true muppet - ended up with a 7 this annoyed me so much i was still cross on the second tee - another par five. anyway i had a quiet word with myself which inspired me to be hitting 5 off the t . . . that was enough for me so i exercised my right to sulk like a small child and give up there and then!

Just going back a while to MO.D's post (3/5/07) where he said he messed up by playing +10 on front 9 whilst he was playing off 27.Isn't this 3 or 4 shots better than handicap ?? If that's messing up I wish I could mess up every weekend !And then he shot +1 on back 9 (12 or 13 better than handicap) - I hope he's not off 27 any more .

Another thing - as I understand it Handicap adjustments for all players in the field are made with reference to the CSS for the the field on the day. So petulance by a handful of players who NR because they are having a bad round DOES have an effect on the rest of the field. In my book if you have entered a comp you have a moral duty to complete the round and return the card, unless you are injured or have some other emergency that forces you to withdraw. Even the one about the lost drive on the 17th is not an excuse - the group behind don't know whether you are having a shocker or on for your best ever round. "Not wanting to hold anyone up" is usually an excuse to avoid the Walk of Shame... can't see anyone doing it if they are 5 under for the round and possibly gonna win......

Is stupidity a good excuse?I forgot to hand our cards in at the last stableford. Neither of us were exactly winning scores, but it's shameful nevertheless...

The CONGU rules sayIt is expected that every player who enters an 18 hole Qualifying Competition intends to complete the round.Clauses 17 and 19 of this System give clubs the discretion to deal with players who persistently submit incomplete cards or make

Steve Morgan 2My bad, i was 11 over on front nine, not 10 - as i've never bettered 82 on our course. I now play off 20 (last year was sh*gged by injuries). I 'messed up' cos as i teed off late i knew the score i had to beat.After reading these posts i've changed my opinion in that walking off is rude unless playing with mates and you know they don't mind. Also

MO.DSorry if this sounds a little harsh, but you should still be considered a bandit if you have hit 82 playing off 20 and consider 11 over for 9 holes to be bad (unless your course is a par 62ish).I play off 12 and have never broken 80 on my course ! !Your handicap should be an indication of your potential (not the highest you can get away with without being called a bandit) If you had said you have never broken 90 I'd say your handicap was fair.

You should never "walk off" unless physically unable to continue the round. Its your choice if you decide to NR a Medal round, but you still play out the round, marking your playing companions card, and completing your own card at the end of the round signed and with "NR" as the score.

Steve Morgan 2Be as harsh as you want it's still a free country lolWhat i should've pointed out is i don't normally hit 82, my score for social rounds vary from the very odd 82 up to 100. My game has been very erratic.I suffered many injuries which didn't allow much play for 12 months. This is the third year i'm playing golf and i was flying in the first year. The comp i was referring to was played only after 7 months of playing golf.I've learnt a lot since and i assure you i'm not a bandit, although i can understand how i may come across as one.Right i'm off to Gainsbourough (Ping) now for a re-fit.

MO.DFair enough I just hope I'm not up against you next time I score 45 points (but I only do that about 4 times a year anyway !)Only joking !~)

SM2LOL - You're gonna love this then; played Gainsborough (Thonock Park) after my irons were re-fitted for lie, i shot +10 (inc. 3 double-bogeys) and the irony was i felt i could've done better!Problem is i could play at Rushcliffe on Thursday and hit +28 - i just wish i had some sort of consistency in my game when it came to medals cos the tension and nerves kill me on the first 5-6 holes.

Another reason for NR - running out of balls! I haven't done it yet, but have come very close - as I carry my bag, it'd kill me to lug more than about 8 around (especially when you're carrying wet weather gear / 2 litres of water).

MO.D.I know this wasn't the original point of this thread but your handicap is not about consistency it is about potential.It sounds like you've played to about 10-12 more than just the once or twice. Maybe you haven't put those cards in for some reason?Steve

I carded a medal 82 once in the summer of my first year (2 yrs ago) but have never carded anything close to that - although i won 2 stablefords with about 43 pts. I got down to 19 but then crept back up with over par rounds!Yr 2 was washed out with injuries and just the one medal which was also a flop.This year i've carded two 21's. Also played in some texas scrambles and other team comps. Also won my third team match (medal - as pairs) and the swing has never been better.I've played rounds at my course and carded 82's on at least 10+ occasions but only off the yellow pots and in social rounds.I agree with your 'potential' remark, and my potential in medals is much poorer than my potential in social rounds.I just can't get to grips with the pressure/tension/anxiety/nerves etc. I HONESTLY would rather walk off a medal and not won if it means my handicap was 9 or less. That low handicap is my aim and not some (no disrespect) crystal tankard or silver spoon. I can't show my little trinkets to everyone whilst playing but i could (would like to) show them how well i can play (specially in medals).I've seriously considered trying a 'joint' before a medal, but that's got to be illegal AND against R&A rules. It's very frustrating not to be able to relax and swing a club without the whole thing feeling alien and like a beginner.I'm going to start a new thread on how to overcome nerves or how to work them to your advantage. I'm at a loss with the nerves!

Bridgey - If you run out of balls you can borrow one from the people you are playing with. Though if you've lost that many they are unlikley to lend you a ProV1 !

Exactly Dec - I wouldn't fancy doling out Pro Vs to someone who was slicing his putts!

Could anyone tell me if it is right to put in an N/R  card with all the scores showing zero, shirly this is as bad from a css point of view as not putting one in at all?

Well, this is an old thread resurrected.  After being on our handicap committee for three years I would say - We got fed up of people N/Ring after a couple of holes just to get their 3 cards in so the rule is now that they have to play a minimum of 12 holes before the card counts as an N/R (we had one extreme case where someone tee'd off on the first and then walked off the course without even collecting his ball just to get his card in). - People who tear up their cards and don't even submit them are even bigger pains in the proverbial as we have to search through all the cards against the sign in list to see who it was. Believe me, working on handicap has opened my eyes to the work that goes in and how unthinking some golfers are.  

The CONGU rules say Dec.2(c) Status of Incomplete Cards and ‘No Returns’ (a) All cards must be returned in Qualifying Competitions, whether complete or not.(b) It is expected that every player who enters an 8 hole Qualifying Competition intends to complete the round.(c) Since an incomplete card and a ‘No Return’ may have the effect of increasing a player’s handicap, the club would be justified in refusing to accept a card or record a No Return when the player has walked in after playing only a few holes.(d) Cards should not be issued to players when there is obviously insufficient light for them to complete the round.(e) Sympathetic consideration should be given to players who have had to discontinue play for any cause considered to be reasonable by the organising Committee.(f) Clauses 23 and 24 of the UHS give clubs the discretion to deal with players who persistently submit incomplete cards or make ‘No Returns’ if they consider they are attempting to “build a handicap”.