Do old golfers hog our courses?
'Club Secretary' magazine says they do and describes them as 'leeches'. Have your say on the forum.
Posted: 15 November 2007
by Golfmagic correspondent
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Retired golfers 'put younger generation off joining'
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Pensioner golfers, who use a golf club's facilities at a discretionary rate have come under fire from The Golf Club Secretary magazine, which allegedly describes many as 'leeches'.
In its latest newsletter the magazine says that elderly players are spending an inordinate amount of their spare time at golf clubs, clogging up the courses and putting a younger generation of golfers off joining.
Accusations include spending more than half their week playing, while paying reduced fees, ruining courses and annoying younger members who often pay a lot more for their membership.
In its newsletter, the magazine claimed that with life expectancy increasing and more workers retiring early, many were taking full advantage of cheaper 'senior' membership.
It warned that clubs should consider new pricing criteria for its 'senior' players, drop the special rate altogether or limiting the number of rounds played.
According to a survey carried out for the English golf Union last year, average membership for an adult male golfer was £627, compared to £484 for a senior. Many seniors are considering five-day membership at clubs because they can still get their quota of games without the pressures of the scrambvle for tee times at weekends.
The newsletter continues: "Perhaps it will take a change in attitude towards those members who are 'always at the club' from perceived as being the club's lifeblood to being perceived as the club's leeches?"
Tell us on
the forum your perception of senior golfers at the course where you play.
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Did anyone else see this this morning on Breakast News? Oldies spoiling it for everyone else Basically it states that the younger players who may only play for one or two rounds per week, are subsidising the baby boomers who get out much more, and pay less money to boot? What does everyone think?
Posted: 14/11/2007 09:04
Outrage!! 
I bunked off work on Wednesday last week - turned up at my club for a quiet 9 holes... place was bloomin teeming with "grey beards!" Dozens of them!!
Lucky beggars!
Posted: 14/11/2007 09:25
Ian Spot on, can't get a place at the bar after a round 'coz of 'em. Ooer I nearly is one.
Posted: 14/11/2007 09:29
Great innit  I thought the whole idea of being a member was to have unlimited access to the course for a given annual fee. I know there are some prestigious clubs where even membership does not entitle you to unlimited play but I sincerely hope this does not happen at our club. Seems strange that on the one hand there is doom and gloom about golf declining in popularity and then an article like this that implies that the retired are getting more than their fair suck of the sauce stick. Seems to me that once again someone has spotted the cash cow and is now seeking a way to milk it 
Posted: 14/11/2007 11:09
At our club they have now removed a requirement to pre-book tee times Monday - Friday. I don't know if this is just for the winter or whether it's forever (I suspect just the winter). I played last Friday morning, only a few groups out and was very pleasant.
Posted: 14/11/2007 11:28
This is over simplified and alarmist and varies for different clubs but does raise issues which we should be aware of. Some thoughts : - due to pensions etc people will have to work till they are older in the future, the golden age of early retirement funded by generous pensions seems to have already passed. - younger members predominantly play at weekends and summer evenings; is there scope to have a five day type membership for the oldies or for people who want to play three days in the week - many older golfers dont want to play at the weekend when it is busier and therefore slower - a possible solution is to have fewer members and have higher subs if the course is good enough to command it ... this then would give an incentive to people who played more often to pay a bit more and enjoy a course with fewer members - another suggestion ( tongue in cheek to you older players ) , introduce starting sheets with internet only booking.... half of the old f--ts would be stumped!
Posted: 14/11/2007 11:32
I thought the whole idea of being a member was to have unlimited access to the course for a given annual fee.
Seems to me that once again someone has spotted the cash cow and is now seeking a way to milk it Couldnt have put it more bluntly and honestly myself Taz,
Posted: 14/11/2007 12:03
My club have greatly reduced the senior discount recently. Obviously this did not go down brilliantly in certain quarters... The rationale was that they get to use the course more often than people in full time work, they are on pretty generous pensions (often funded by us poor blokes who still go to work) and most importantly that they represent an ever increasing percentage of the club's members. In reality, we simply couldn't afford to maintain the previous level of senior discounts without putting up rates unnaceptably high for ordinary members to pay for it all.
Posted: 14/11/2007 12:24
Many other organisations - public transport, leisure facilities, some restaurants/food retailers, hairdressers,etc offer discounts to retired folk. But usually this is to attract business away from normal peak times, so the discount is linked to a particular "off peak" time slot. Simplest thing would be to restrict senior's discounts at golf clubs to off peak times eg seniors are eligible for reduced fees, but that only entitles them to a reduction in the 5 day membership. If they want to play weekends too, they have to pay the full 7 day rate.
Posted: 14/11/2007 13:08
Agree with Taz and Razzer and wonder where it is going to end I'm a mum and housewife who pays for a full 7 day membership, has no pension, but has the opportunity to play anytime, subject to family commitments. Will they be picking on the likes of us next Its like many things, they want you to have it but not to use it. A number of years ago before broadband was readily available, we had our dial-up cut off because we used it too much and they didn't want us as a customer
Posted: 14/11/2007 13:26
We have no seniors discounts at our club - quite right too. Most are also 5 day members only, which does free up weekend play for the workers. Not me though - I'm a 7 day member ..can't remember the last time I played a weekend mind
Posted: 14/11/2007 14:28
Apologies for thread duplication. Was away yesterday and missed the original. However have transferred comment on this subject from two posters: Chris Elliston: I think they are getting a raw deal. I normally only get a chance to play at weekends and on weekday evenings in the summer (probably the same for most younger (cough) golfers). I never really see that many pensioners on the course at those times.
No point in restricting their usage during the week in my opinion as the courses are probably empty anyway (apart from bl**dy societies and corporates).
Cut 'em some slack. When i'm 65 i hope that I'm fit enough to get out on the course and with a pension my only form of income would be glad of reduced rates. Littlelegs: I think they get themselves a bad name or do we give them one? I agree with Chris. If i had the time and the oppotunity guess where I would be!
Posted: 15/11/2007 16:08
Nice to see that the guys on here so far disagree with the article. You don't have to be a Limping Wrinkly to get on the course during the week - we have all manner of people who are not too busy to play doctors, lawyers, bank managers, taxi drivers, postmen, farmers, policemen etc. ...... and pretty soon - estate agents
Posted: 15/11/2007 16:16
To my knowledge, the oldies are mainly off and away before 9am, so well out of the way of the social golfer. Plus, the buggers normally leg it around, as opposed to some of the dawdling hackers who tee off at 1pm, and are still walking down the 18th at a quarter to 7.........(on a club night too - how inconsiderate)
Posted: 15/11/2007 16:40
Did my first gig as a stand up comic last week, at an old folk's home. They didn't get any of the jokes, but they still pissed themselves!
Posted: 15/11/2007 16:43
At 71, having paid a large fortune in entry fees and subscriptions over 57 years of golf, playing to a good standard, observing the rules and etiquette, supporting my club pros whenever possible, religiously looking after the course, using my club for meals and drinks on a regular basis - blimey I reckon that us oldsters DESERVE any and every benefit which comes our way. I do know for a FACT that when a group of us goes away for a day at another club we are particularly welcomed because we behave immaculately on and off the course-unlike some of the younger element which appear to have turned up straight from footie training often wearing their footie kit with footie manners!
Posted: 15/11/2007 16:44
But, Boa' , didnt Ben Hogan say "You might as well reward me for NOT robbing a bank!" when complimented for calling a penalty on himself! (I am sure someone will correct my miss quotation!) Let me know when you want to play Hankley! Promise to not arrive in football colours!
Posted: 15/11/2007 17:02
But, Boa' , didnt Ben Hogan say "You might as well reward me for NOT robbing a bank!" when complimented for calling a penalty on himself! (I am sure someone will correct my miss quotation!) Let me know when you want to play Hankley! Promise to not arrive in football colours!
Posted: 15/11/2007 17:09
I can see both sides of the argument here to be honest. On one hand, I don't see why I should subsidise seniors' fees - they should pay the same fees as everyone else. It's all very well saying they're on pensions, but most of them have little or no mortgage to pay either, and I know which I'd rather have at the moment! But once they've paid them, then they have the same rights as everyone else, and should be allowed to play when they like. Just as a side note, I have to disagree with Boanerges here: the players with the worst etiquette at our club are seniors. The elderly ladies play at a pace which can only be described as continental drift, as do some of the men, and you know that they will never in a month of Sundays call you through. Moreover, the only occasion I have come anywhere near to blows on a golf course was when I was verbally abused by 2 seniors (with some fairly choice language) for hitting a ball onto their fairway (despite yelling 'fore' at the top of my voice). This is not to tar all seniors with the same brush - but I know from speaking to the captain 90% of all complaints made to him (by non-seniors) are about seniors.
Posted: 15/11/2007 17:11
Ian/Phoenix/Uncle Tom Cobley and all, Greetings! Actually, the quote was from the immortal Bobby Jones who many argue was the greatest golfer ever, winning the US Open as an amateur! I look forward to playing with you at Hankley although you might like to partner me with two others in an "Open" 4 ball competition which I am finding more about. I would not expect ANY GM members to turn up for golf looking other than well turned out!
Posted: 15/11/2007 17:17
Interesting. There's an old test of attitudes used in gerontology (that's the study of old age, for all the halfwits reading this) - substitute 'black' for 'old' and see what you get in some of these statements. Writing something like 'old people clogging up the course' is okay for many of you ageist individuals, but you'd never dream of writing 'black people clogging up the course' would you (or at least I hope you wouldn't)? So presumably it's okay to stigmatise old people in a way that would be beyond the pale for other groups, is it? There is a fundamental difference between an ageist and a racist. A racist, repellant as he or she is, knows that they will never change their skin colour. But an ageist, provided they remain disease and accident-free, becomes what they have so much fun mocking at the moment. Now is that thick, or what? Back on topic. The idea that it's old people clogging up the course that's deterring younger people is risible. Most prospective new golfers are deterred by the image of the typical golfer, not how easy it is to get a round of golf. The sport is still far too male dominated and by a narrow social grouping at that: not necessarily the very rich or titled, but the self-made business man and senior executive and the wannabees in those same categories. This has its good points - the better clubs are dynamic, well-run regarding services for members and relatively unpretentious. But on the negative side we have the misogyny, the slavish worship of 'good' dress sense (yes, you may have to dress a particular way at the office and for Lodge meetings, but leave it at that, eh, guys?), the anti-intellectual posturing, etc, etc. If I were wanting to attract more people into the sport, I know where I'd start making the changes, and it certainly wouldn't be in pointless and largely unfounded gripes about older adults.
Posted: 15/11/2007 19:17
Brilliant post honey monster Ageism - good point - perhaps Bob could point out to this particular magazine that some of the comments within are not politically correct. It is not as if this particular area has not been broached before, ageism is not allowed in job interviews etc. so why should it be tolerated in such articles. In fact, I am bl**dy offended - no really - bl**dy offended  It's nice to play the ageist card
Posted: 15/11/2007 20:05
At our course the younger players (25 and under) get better discounts than the OAP senior members with over 20 years of membership. Having been lucky enough to be able to play my golf whenever I like I see this as nothing new, the people able to play during the week have always played more rounds, regardless of age, than those only able to play weekends. Now I no longer work I actually play less golf than I did when I worked. At our course we offer a range of membership 'classes' but the fact still remains that if you want to play golf at the busiest time, Saturday mornings, you have to take out the most expensive type of membership. Supply and demand will always rule the business ethics of running the finances of a club and most clubs will always have more people that want to play Saturday mornings than at any other time. I know my biggest bug bear of seniors when I was younger was that they wanted to monoplise the early start time times so it was impossible to get in a game before going to work. Very annoying when I you consider the fact that once you are retired you have all day to play. Now I have reached that sort of age I realised that 8 o'oclock in the morning is in fact half way through the day for most seniors.
Posted: 15/11/2007 20:29
Honey Monster, did it hurt when you fell off that high horse? In my humble opinion, the example you cite makes no sense. When people talk of 'old people clogging up the course' they are making reference to the perception that old people walk slower, are prone to a lot of chit-chat and don't generally hit the ball so far, hence their rounds can take longer. No one would ever make reference to 'black people clogging up the course' because black people do not have a tendancy to play golf slower than anyone else. You are trying to equate agism with racism is this example - quite erroneously. Since most people are happy to see the more elderly amongst us have cheap/free bus fares, tickets to theatres, TV licenses etc... what is the problem with cheaper golf?
Posted: 15/11/2007 20:54
Honey Monster, did it hurt when you fell off that high horse? Oh dear. Is that really the best you can do? When people talk of 'old people clogging up the course' they are making reference to the perception that old people walk slower, are prone to a lot of chit-chat and don't generally hit the ball so far, hence their rounds can take longer. Absolutely, and old people also sometimes forget where they are and it's well known that they all live in the past. And how they manage to walk without their Zimmer frames is amazing. Get real ... these are farcical stereotypes. Of course there are fossils who gleefully cling to outmoded beliefs and are deeply mistrustful of other age groups. Guess what? - you can find them at any age. Just what do you think the clubhouse philosopher in his thirties going on and on about how badly the place is run and why are all these old people in charge/clogging up the place is going to turn into? The only fundamental difference between an old git and a young git is how many times the Earth has been round the Sun since they were born. Personally, I've been held up just as much by younger as older players, and (again, personal experience only) the most annoying on the whole are golf society tossers in their twenties and thirties in golf buggies (there, there, diddums, can't walk round eighteen holes and you've no arthritis/rheumatism/heart disease? would you like someone to swing the club for you as well?). The point being, that if we're going to have unappealing stereotypes, then we can find as many in the younger generation as there are in the older.
Posted: 15/11/2007 21:48
To stand up for the old buggers, I would like to point out that if it wasn't for the seniors giving up their time etc most golf clubs would grind to a halt as the committees would be threadbare. I have to say at my club the seniors play a very active role and are always accommodating and friendly so good luck to them !
Posted: 15/11/2007 22:05
As a senior myself, I wasn't happy at all with the writers choice of words in describing snrs. as "Leeches".At my club snrs. receive no discounts whatever until the age of 80 when I believe the fees are then halved.We play 3 times a week{weather permitting} usually about 20-25 in number,playing in three's,drawing for partners regardless of h'caps and the draw is made at 10:15 which means we're usually on the tee at about 10:30. Should visitors arrive they are always given preference,as are 2/balls,and younger and quicker players are invited to come through when the situation arises.Surprisingly enough, many are happy to keep their place on the course and enjoy the day. As a 73 yr. old, golf has kept me physically fitter and more mentally alert than had I been at home tele-watching all dayand has probably kept my visits to my G.P. to a minimum.I thank my lucky stars that I took the game up and look forward to many more rounds in the future.I'm in for a hip replacement in Dec. so I should be out on the course again sometime in Mar. Have a nice Xmas everyone( including the chap who wrote the somewhat misguided article}
Posted: 15/11/2007 22:23
Tricky It seems that,very pleasingly to an old codger like me, you and most others on this thread are very magnanimous to us seniors. For myself I do indeed get really frustrated with those seniors who,sadly,took up our great game after they retired thinking it would be good exercise in their later years. Many of these do tend to fiddle and faff their way round the course taking too long over their shots AND walking slowly between them! On the other hand many of us who have played golf as our main sport since we were young and have been good players like to get on with it. When I started golf it was NORMAL for a single to go round-even in a competition- in two and a half hours-and for a four ball a tad over three hours. Etiquette and observance of the rules was very strict and all the usual sensible things like advancing on a green with pitch repairer in hand, leaving one's clubs on the side of the green nearest to the next tee and being ready to attend the pin when required were automatic. These good habits are entrenched in our golf now. I do believe very strongly that it is the DUTY of a senior golfer to play the game in the above manner to set an example to the younger generation so that we may be seen as being useful in our old age rather than a nuisance to other golfers as many perceive us to be
Posted: 15/11/2007 22:48
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