Why R&A says 'No' to GPS
'but it's all to do with the Over 60s'
Posted: 8 December 2008
by Graham Curtis
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Checking yardages in a buggy
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In view of the stance taken by the Professional Golfers Association and the English Golf Union in allowing GPS equipment to be used in its domestic competition to help a player use satellite navigation to assist in assessing yardages to flagsticks and hazards, it has been widely believed that the game's rule-makers, the R&A, might have followed suit.
Golfmagic member Graham Curtis (66) from Leigh on Sea Essex, indeed asked why the R&A has held firm in merely passing on the option to allow GPS to individual clubs to make a Local Rule, rather introduce it for widespread use and in competitions within it own jurisdiction.
He received the following reply:
"The use of distance measuring devices during a stipulated round remains contrary to the Rules of Golf. However, a Committee can permit them via a Local Rule (Rules of Golf: Appendix I, Part B, 9.)
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Traditional method of checking yardages in Tour events
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"The R&A does not advocate the introduction of a Local Rule
permitting the use of distance measuring devices and is not introducing
such a Local Rule for any of its own amateur championships or matches, or
The Open Championship.
"It is for each individual Committee to decide whether it wants to allow the use of distance measuring devices for play on its course or in certain of its competitions. In the absence of a Local Rule, the use of such a device is contrary to the Rules of Golf.
"The decision to allow such devices by Local Rule was only made a little
over two years ago. This remains a very emotive subject. There are many
that would argue just as you have (i.e. that it is permissible to use
yardage books, there are distances on sprinkler heads and posts at the
sides of fairways, they speed up play, etc).
"On the other hand there are many who just do not think that electronic devices have any place on the golf course, that golf is already a relatively expensive sport and to allow such devices places an increasing financial pressure on golfers, and that any time saving is minimal at best.
"Therefore, it was decided that, rather than impose distance measuring devices on clubs/golfers, individual Committees should have the authority to allow such devices if they wished."
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One of the new GPS devices by Sureshot
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Graham, however believes that the decision by the R&A is more about the age and traditional values of its decision-makers rather than the need to prevent GPS devices being a financial imposition and slowing down play.
In his reply to the R&A, to which he has yet to receive a response he wrote:
"Yardage books, sprinkler heads and posts do not speed up play, they slow
it down. I travel around golf courses a lot and the few courses that have not introduced the Local Rule to allow gps equipment, have committees where most of its members are aged over 60.
"The decision is definately an age thing, tradition and all that crap. It has nothing to do with wanting to speed up play. I'm 66 and disagree with the minority who don't want progress and modern technology on the
golf course."
Graham also revealed that he has carried out his own survey and discovered that among golfers aged over 60 - about half don't agree with the use of GPS, 20 per-cent agree and 30% don't care. Among golfers aged under 40, he claims 90% agree and the remainder are 'not bothered either way.'
"There is no difference on the financial pressure between this and two guys
playing in the final of the English Amateur Championship - one playing using a set of the latest top of the range Callaway clubs and the other playing with a
set of 30-year-old Titleist clubs. Most GPS units are cheaper than a quality driver.
He told the R&A that he believes those that make their decisions, are mostly aged over 50 and their inability accept range-finders is causing too much ambiguity among players and committees now that the PGA and EGU have accepted them for competition play.
"I look forward to the day when the R&A come toits senses and agrees
with everyone else that GPS equipment is here to stay and it can amend their 'Rules of Golf' accordingly."
Tell us on the forum your views on GPS devices. Have they helped your game or are you one of those that feel that the R&A is correct in insisting that it is a decision for individual clubs to allow them and that currently there's no place for them in The Amateur Championship and in major Tour events?
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Discuss this story
How about the have and the have not interms of irons and drivers, those who can afford electic trollies and those who can not? But still its all down to the golfer, if you crap you will still be crap no matter what technology you use.
Posted: 19/11/2008 11:32
Nice to see the EGU showing common sense - maybe the R&A could do likewise. They're little more than electronic yardage charts and offer you a simple item of fact (assuming you trust their accuracy) which is how far from your ball to a target. They don't tell you what club to hit, if left of the pin is better than right, what affect the wind may have etc. All of which advice you'd get from the ultimate accessory - a good caddy. GPS devices speed up play and anything that does that has to be a good thing. Nice one EGU, welcome to the 21st Century! Now if you can just get to grips with slope rating......
Posted: 19/11/2008 12:01
So am I right in thinking that this means that nothing has changed unless you happen to be playing an EGU competition? Your club rules are still the same and can still stop you from using them, so unless the R&A make a specific change then we are no nearer. BTW: Lets assume that the R&A make a change to allow them, does this stop any club from making a rule to still refuse the use of them?
Posted: 19/11/2008 13:09
So am I right in thinking that this means that nothing has changed unless you happen to be playing an EGU competition? Your club rules are still the same and can still stop you from using them, so unless the R&A make a specific change then we are no nearer. BTW: Lets assume that the R&A make a change to allow them, does this stop any club from making a rule to still refuse the use of them?
That's the way it looks, although the EGU presumably could insist that clubs allow them - after all they've made clubs change the handicap allowances in club matchplay comps.
Posted: 19/11/2008 13:14
at long last an intelligent decision from a ruling body just a shame that it has come from a regional body instead of the ruling and final authority
Posted: 19/11/2008 13:33
So am I right in thinking that this means that nothing has changed unless you happen to be playing an EGU competition? Your club rules are still the same and can still stop you from using them, so unless the R&A make a specific change then we are no nearer. BTW: Lets assume that the R&A make a change to allow them, does this stop any club from making a rule to still refuse the use of them?
That's the way it looks, although the EGU presumably could insist that clubs allow them - after all they've made clubs change the handicap allowances in club matchplay comps.
BT is right ....its still up to clubs to implement a local rule allowing their use. As for BT's second question....it depends on how the R&A word its ruling...they may say that "DMD's are allowed" as simple as that....and no club can then say that theyre not allowed as they would effectively be "waiving a rule of golf" which is not obviously not allowed.
In my opinion the EGU could NOT insist that clubs use them (DMD's). Clubs play competitions under The Rules of Golf which are administered by the R&A and no one else (in this country). All the EGU can do is to say that "for competitions that are run by the EGU they will allow the use of DMD's". They have no further jurisdiction in the matter. Handicap allowances are not determined by the R&A so the EGU was perfectly within its rights to changing the h'cap matchplay allowances and bring England into line with the rest of the UK. No precedent has therefore been set that allows the EGU to "modify" any of The Rules and impose those modifications on its member clubs.
Posted: 20/11/2008 19:49
Thin end of the wedge - I'm not a technophobe but could give dozens of incidences where technology has screwed a perfectly good system. If it ain't broke don't fix it - it'll all end in tears - there may be trou ... ble ah ... ead 
Posted: 20/11/2008 20:07
First the PGA and now the EGU show some sense. Bloody hell this cold be catching. Has the EGU gone too far ? NO. They have done exactly what the R&A wanted them to do. The R&A lacked the back bone to make a definitive decision, so they went half way hoping the other bodies would take the final step. Well it has happened and I for one am happy about it. Sadly though there will be many disappointed people out there. Today my "mature" golfing buddy was disbelieving that his "300yd" drive was actually 255 yds. The fact he still had 200 yds of a 450+ par 4 rubbed it in a little.
Posted: 20/11/2008 20:11
I agree to their use, as they only give a measurement to the middle of the green, you still have to estimate the holes position. But at our club they are still outlawed. The reson being they give an advantage to someone who can afford one over someone who cannot. But the same could be said of being able to afford new clubs, or even afford Pro V's over top flights etc.
Thats a crass rule without foundation.
A GPS device can be had for around £100 new and even less 2nd hand....little more than the price of a new wedge.
Posted: 20/11/2008 20:59
Agree with Tims post above. Biggest reason it should be used is just to speed up play. I reckon its worth at least 20mins a round or more on a course you dont know, if you are taking the round seriously. It should, maybe in time, improve the standard of play, as peeps will get an idea as to how far they really hit their clubs and thus select them better. We shall see if ave Hc's come down in a few years.
In my opinion they wont for one simple reason...
even if the "group average" score in a comp comes down (i.e. everybody improves) this will be negated by the fact that the CSS for the comp will reduce accordingly. Any improvement in scoring will be negated by an equivalent reduction in CSS. Thus no overall reduction in handicap will occur.
Posted: 20/11/2008 21:03
But what about the relationship to SSS's ? Dunno as no expert on CONGU HC system or exactly how it works and I can see your arguement about the differential benefits effectively dissappearing under each Golf Clubs CSS but in relation to mean SSS overall ( Assuming this has some measured bearing on overall HC ), HC's may come down at least a fraction. There again HC's havent come down in the last 40 years much, if at all, even with new golf technology or maybe courses are longer and harder, to compensate. The time taken for a round has got longer though and a DMD will help to reduce this.
Posted: 20/11/2008 22:04
I'm on record as saying I'm against these devices. You have equipment to help you hit the ball, not to tell you where to hit it. In a sense, though, it doesn't matter about the big EGU championships - these are guys who take it all very seriously, have all the best gear and so on anyway. There will be no "haves v have-nots". What annoys me is that this will hasten it filtering down to the club stableford and society day, and tw*ts who already (a) take the game too seriously, and (b) like showing off their expensive kit will be holding up their gitboxes, scratching their chins and going "Hmmmm.... 139 yards, two feet and half an inch. Right on the cusp between an eight and a nine....". Though with any luck they'll still dump it in the front right bunker.
Posted: 21/11/2008 10:45
ProV1 and stood for ages in front of the Club champions board at Seaton Carew in 100+ years the winning totals over two rounds has changed very little coming down only slightly, the course has stayed virtually the same so after all the changes in club and ball technology not making much difference I dont think knowing the exact yardage will make a ha'ppence worth. And as the aim seems to be to make it one game for all pros and a hackers it wont be long before a measuring device will be essential equipment like tees and bananas..in a few years time we will be looking at 150yd markers and wondering what they were for..
Posted: 21/11/2008 19:29
GVI Gary wrote ( see) I'm on record as saying I'm against these devices. You have equipment to help you hit the ball, not to tell you where to hit it. In a sense, though, it doesn't matter about the big EGU championships - these are guys who take it all very seriously, have all the best gear and so on anyway. There will be no "haves v have-nots". What annoys me is that this will hasten it filtering down to the club stableford and society day, and tw*ts who already (a) take the game too seriously, and (b) like showing off their expensive kit will be holding up their gitboxes, scratching their chins and going "Hmmmm.... 139 yards, two feet and half an inch. Right on the cusp between an eight and a nine....". Though with any luck they'll still dump it in the front right bunker.
The green eyed monster is a terrible thing, if you cant afford one then just say so we'll understand, I'll let you have mine cheap when I upgrade for a nominal sum, no credit though.
Posted: 21/11/2008 20:19
Dunno whether I'll ever bother using one. It isn't the cost and I doubt it would be with any of the Limping Wrinklies that I play with. It's the stigma, the apparent inability to do anything without the aid of some electronic gizmo either stuck in an ear or held up in front of the face. I do possess a mobile phone but my biggest ever monthly bill for it was £12-50 because I only use it when I need it, which on that occasion was in Greece. I also have satnav in the car, because the car is an environment where I strongly believe in safety and technical advancement. The car is also automatic and has automatic rain sensors and headlights, all essential in this day and age IMHO and yet the same 'gizmo users' would argue the toss about automatic cars versus 1930's gearbox technology - strange. .... the golfcourse is not a place for mobile phones or electronic games between shots - if 'Using the Force' was good enough for Luke Skywalker, then it's good enough for me. 
Posted: 22/11/2008 09:27
Taz wrote (see) Dunno whether I'll ever bother using one. It isn't the cost and I doubt it would be with any of the Limping Wrinklies that I play with. It's the stigma, the apparent inability to do anything without the aid of some electronic gizmo either stuck in an ear or held up in front of the face.
Fortunately for myself I'm not a technophobe Taz, I embrace anything that makes a task simpler, notice the word 'SIMPLER', yardage instuments what ever you want to call them are just tools for the job, just like your wedge into the green, your towel to clean off the ball in damp conditions, theres no mystic power to them, nothing sinister to give the deep walleted scoundrel the edge. Come on Taz, without electronic gizmo's we wouldnt even be able to watch telly, let alone me join in this thread without my trusty PC, and how would I cope without my daily session with Tiger Woods on Xbox 360! Let it all hang out Taz, you know you want to.
Posted: 22/11/2008 10:09
I also have satnav in the car, because the car is an environment where I strongly believe in safety and technical advancement.
I actually strongly believe that SatNav in cars has done much to REDUCE safety.
A device has been introduced into the vehicle that regularly causes the driver to take his eyes off the road. This cannot be a good thing (though I grant that its better than leaning over to peer at a map that wont stay open at the right page spread out across the passenger seat!!). It is laden with features and functionality that almost encourage the driver to press "buttons" whilst he is driving (hey lets check if the speed on my speedo matches the speed my StaNav thinks i'm doing!!)....a further unwanted distraction. The SatNav also has totally eradicated any element of "journey planning". In pre SatNav days a long journey to an unknown destination would be preceeded by an evening looking at maps, planning which junctions to exit from etc. This would all prepare the driver for the journey ahead and make him think well in advance of where he needed to be in terms of road positioning and the map would give a visualisation of the road layout. The SatNav maybe alerts you to the fact that you are exiting the M1 in 7 miles time but only delivers some sort of view of the road layout when you are right on top of the junction (unless you go fiddling around with the buttons to have a look at whats up ahead before you get there). It is perhaps this last element - Journey planning- that I believe to be the crucial one. A key aspect of road safety is being prepared for what might happen up the road ahead. Anticipation is something that is helped by having a journey plan and it is something that is virtually eradicated by the reliance of a little electronic device that gives you instructions as to where to go and does much of your thinking for you. You dont have to worry about where you are going because the SatNav will do it for you, you largely ignore road signs....not just the directional ones but the warnings and commands - all becasue your mind has drifted on to other things instead of focussing on all aspects of getting you from A to B. I've got a SatNav in my car....and whilst on holiday this summer my wife commented about how my standard of driving had dropped since I got it. I allways previously knew exactly where I was going and how I was going to get there and what difficulties lay in the way....but with the SatNav I wasnt focussed on what I was doing....missed key road signs etc and generally drove less well. Mentioning SatNavs telling people to drive down train tracks or into Canals might not be a fair criticism of SatNavs....after all....there is a driver who should be able to judge whether what the SatNav is telling him is sensible or not....but the very fact that some folks have done these things is a demonstration that many drivers come to overly depend upon these devices and forget about general aspects of common sense and road safety. I put it to you, Mr Taylor, that your belief that SatNav is an advance in safety is somewhat shakey. sorry for threadjacking.
Posted: 22/11/2008 10:18
Anybody got a few quid to invest in my new venture: SatNav GPS Rangefinders for golfers?? "At the next tee box, hit a 7 iron one hundred and forty nine yards", then take the Putter."
Posted: 22/11/2008 10:47
Good rant Nick You may be right but I personally think satnav is a valuable tool if used appropriately and the Tom Tom cost 100 bucks and I use it a lot. Navigating my way round a 6500 yard golf course I have always found relatively easy - I don't think I need a cut down Tom Tom at 3 times the price to help me do it 
Posted: 22/11/2008 10:57
pasty wrote (see) Anybody got a few quid to invest in my new venture: SatNav GPS Rangefinders for golfers??
Sorry mate, Ive already taken out the patent!
Posted: 22/11/2008 13:20
 ----- I must be getting old. I cannot see what use one of these devices could be. Surely part of the fun of golf is the deciding which is the appropriate club, and using your judgement brings success or failure. I agree those who take an age to decide "how far" are a pain, but I am convinced that with one of these devices they would still take the time, only now they would be questioning whether or not the device is right. If so, why use it in the first place. Another device we don't need, which will soon be gathering dust in some remote corner of the garage.
I think I will devise a golf GPS "blocker". It will have a vast range. It is not therefore anyone buying one of these damn things for Xmas. You have been warned.
Posted: 10/12/2008 16:47
I think they are fine for pros and their competitions; it certainly might speed things up a bit. However, the average club player, unless very consistent with distance, will not really benefit. Probably the most useful application is when playing an unfamiliar course and even then a stroke saver is still a credible alternative. I guess it then becomes optional in which case I might find it useful in that respect (if I could afford one!). My greatest concern is how the GPS device will remove the human judgement element from the game. I like change and the implementation of new technology sensibly applied but this is a sport full of skill and I feel it might get dumbed down.
Posted: 10/12/2008 19:24
I have no problem with the rules allowing distance-measuring devices. In Tour events, the golfers all have caddies who know the distances from various landmarks, and as such can tell the golfer how far to the front edge of the green, the middle of the green, the bunker on the left, etc. In my opinion, a GPS device serves the same purpose. For what it’s worth, here’s the RCGA’s position on the matter: The Rules of Golf allow a club or committee in charge of a competition to implement a local rule permitting the use of distance measuring devices (range finders and the like). If no such local rule is implemented, use of distance-measuring devices remains a breach of the Rules for which the penalty is disqualification.In the event that a club or Committee in charge of a competition chooses to permit the use of distance-measuring devices, the RCGA recommends the following wording for the local rule:”Distance-Measuring Devices:
[Specify as appropriate, e.g., In this competition, or For all play at this course, etc.], a player may obtain distance information by using a device that measures distance only. However, if, during a stipulated round, a player uses a distance-measuring device that is designed to gauge or measure other conditions that might affect his play (e.g., gradient, wind-speed, temperature, etc.), the player is in breach of Rule 14-3, for which the penalty is disqualification, regardless of whether any such additional functions are actually used.”
The Royal Canadian Golf Association (RCGA) will not adopt the Local Rule allowing the use of distance-measuring devices at its championships or qualifying rounds in 2008.
Posted: 12/12/2008 00:35
I play regularly with a good mate...he is really good company both on and off the course. But he has this infuriating habit of pacing everything out from the 150 markers. I tell him "Bob, it's a bloody wedge/9 iron just hit the thing" but no...he has to know exactly how hard/soft (to the ounce it appears) he has to hit it. Our four hour fourball becomes a four and a half fourball and we are falling further and further back from the match in front. I can't wait until he buys a bloody GPS.
Posted: 12/12/2008 07:47
I just wish these mobs of blazered twats would put out one rule regarding these devices. Allow them or ban them. I believe they should be allowed, but if not then c'est la vie, thats fine, as long as we all know. But this is a ridiculous position, some clubs allowing them through local rule, most not, EGU saying they are ok, R&A not sure, USGA say they are acceptable. Its a farce. Its not like all these salaried idiots at the R&A etc exactly have a lot to do, a couple of miniscule rule changes every couple of years. The whole concept is that all golfers everywhere play to the same set of rules, and yet they have managed to totaly fragment the usage (and understanding of whether they are allowed) of these devices.
Posted: 12/12/2008 07:58
It really doesn't matter whether you agree with them or not, too much corporate money has been invested in them, they will become reality. When they are fully allowed you'll see caddies using them in conjunction with yardage books. No way will a caddie risk technological failure and therefore the chance of his pro not knowing the precise yardage. I do wish people would stop using pointless arguements against them though. They do not tell you any information that it's not perfectly possible to obtain, legally, in another manner. In advance of a game I can use every bit of technology to map every inch of a course. I could then carry this enormous amount of data as a big A4 ringbinder. Doing this I would be classed as 'well prepared', or anal, getting that info, legally, during a round I'd be classed as an exceptionally slow player. But obtain the same info in live play via DMD and I'm a cheat. Broken down like that it's possible to view the arguement as one of timing. DMD's are legal before and after rounds just not during, but info gained from them and written down is legal at all times. I have an SG3, which will shortly be going up for sale as I'm upgrading. I almost never use this at my home course, I know the course too well. There's no distance judgement skill here I've just played it enough to know my next club needed before I've stepped away from the previous shot. But I love it when I play other courses, for me it removes the hassle of pacing from markers etc and saves me buying a course planner. Wouldn't say it especially improves my golf as I was always meticulous about distances anyway but it does speed it up.
Posted: 12/12/2008 08:45
Jim, it's not that I can't afford it - compared to what my share portfolio goes up or (more often) down every day, the cost is just a rounding error - I just resent being pressured to spend more money in order to eliminate the slight suspicion that I might be at a disadvantage. I am, however, also aware that this is a sport which is already saddled with a reputation of being for middle-class white men, and adding a £200+ device to the list of things people feel they need in order to compete in it will not help broaden its appeal. Which won't help clubs fill their membership lists. Which won't help keep courses open. Which means they won't be there when I want to play them. I won't be buying one, because at my level the danger is not getting the yardage wrong, it's hitting the ball in the wrong direction or barely moving it. Invent a device to prevent that and I'll give you £500 for it right now!
Posted: 12/12/2008 09:48
GVI, I won't be buying one, because at my level the danger is not getting the yardage wrong, it's hitting the ball in the wrong direction or barely moving it. Invent a device to prevent that and I'll give you £500 for it right now! Thats called the latest range of irons and woods out by any manufactuer! Always promising more forgiveness more length As for your second paragraph, very over simplistic! Do you really think any one would not take golf up because they dont have a GPS, its like saying they wont take golf up because they dont have the lastest £700 irons or £300 driver! By having a GPS IMO you are neither at an advantage or disadavtage, it gives you nothing more than you could do for yourself in around 10 hours pacing a golf course out and making notes alongside a yardage chart and then pacing out the yardage to your ball each time. its just saves you the hassle of doing it yourself. Again to be over simplistic, is someone who buys a £5 yardage chart are they having an advantage over the guy who doesnt invest in the £5?
Posted: 12/12/2008 11:01
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