"General Play" Revisions

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"General Play" Revisions
Could anyone tell me how "General Play" revisions are assessed please? I played in a recent club competition ( round 5 of 6 of an eclectic comp ) -admittedly not a "qualifying comp" i.e. medal etc. Off the white tees Shot 4 under h'cap (40 pnts) net 66 off my 20.7 h'cap (SSS 69 par 70) -bad weather -blobbed one hole par 4 with 7. I was hoping I might get cut a shot-but it wasn't to be. My brother in law (admittidly single fig h'capper) played 3 under the same type of comp previous mth and got cut a shot. I am sure I have been cut for gen play in the past but not sure how it is worked out. When it is applied etc? I was playing with an ex Captain who believes there is no such thing as 18 plus h'cap and anyone over 18 should be shot at birth!

Getting cut in general play is not something to be encouraged - nor during 'winter rules'.

However, if you had recorded your strokeplay, were off the whites and were not 'picking and placing' the ball I cannot see why a cut was not made.

Unless they did not pass the cards to the handicap secretary - perhaps you could ask for the card to be submitted for handicap.

Possibly to do with the Winter Rules being in play as you suggest Lionel. Thanks. It's just I am interested-are there any real guidleines re General play?????Seems odd
if no consistnecy from club to club?

G

No there isnt! I know places where you get cut if the HCap Sec sees you hole a putt on the practice green!

Having served my time as a Handicap Secretary I can confirm that general play cuts are applied totally at the discretion of the committee of each club. There are general guidelines such as taking matchplay results into account. I must admit to having imposed general play cuts based on overheard bar room conversations, you know the sort of thing "I scored 48 points today, couldn't miss a thing....". I was always happy to catch those bandits!
Generally speaking general play cuts are usually based on a sustained level of performance, say three or four rounds below SSS in a 5 or 6 week period. I very rarely made cuts once winter rules came into operation.

Interesting topic down ere in Oz in comp yu put yer card in & bust rating & yu get cut eg say 18hcp =C grade cut .4 each point or net score better than days rating

CCR 70 a net 66 x.4=1.6 shots so was say @ 18.4 (18 hcp)you now @ 16.8 allowed a 17hcp

CCR (a days course rating)is based on wots called the 15th percentile & the score the 15th player in comp returns & yu gets cut whenever no discretion

No winter nor summer rules no tee up wind rain etc is considered different; because all playing same course & conditions anyway

Ugg !!

Isn't that the same as the States and how we are duen to go in th UK i.e Every competitive round to count gainst H'cap???
Seems a better way.

My understanding of the US system is that every card, competitive or otherwise, is submitted. Hence they rarely, if ever, play matchplay.

Also in the US they have the 'slope rating' system which IMHO should be adopted worldwide.

gud wun bit more admin but why not initiate slope rating everywhere ?

my course 4 & 6 shot easier than @ least 2 other we compete against in pennants eg so I give up to 6 shot start to these players of equal hcp (but win sometimes)

but why dos each card count stop matchplay ?
Ugg !! donk

Oh by the way, no matter wot T play is off yer card still counts cos agin all playing same course.

Only time seems unfair Vet's (55's to 90's so praps many strokes few points)setup bit shorter easier ? use club hcp (no seperate vet hcp)

Rating may show hard big score get big chop disadvantages those playing in general club events later Ugg ! donk

wot is SSS ?? Ugg !! donk

Quote from www.handicapmaster.org :-

The Standard Scratch Score (SSS) assessment is typically made by the County Unions on behalf of their National Union. Provisionally, it is based upon the total length of the course and need not match the sum of the Par's for each hole. Consideration is given to difficulty of natural conditions (number of hazards, etc.). Ultimately, it is a subjective assessment, typically made by a small 'committee' of top amateur golfers.

Ah so ! tanks !!

Relates then to our "course rating" this a measure by independant survey in relation to hazards length etc eg Paradise Palms Cairns C/rating 74 as against on card 72

Ugg !1

I dont agree with people not getting cut in the winter....Im currently off 13...Yesterday I went out and shot a +3 gross. On Saturday I shot a +5 gross.

My point is that because Ive gone out and done the above I should get cut. Its a lot of shots above what I should be shooting..Im not asking to be cut to 6 or 7 but there's certainly scope to put me down a couple...You still have to hit the greens to score...

Before anyone says anything I have returned both cards as general play...Now its up to the handicap committee....:-) we'll see...

But needless to say...It'll be their own fault if they dont do anything. This is the culmination of a lot of time on the range and lessons with a pro...The pro firmly believing that I should be off single nums by the middle of next year. I will take offence to anyone calling me a bandit.....

Any thoughts on the above ???

well if yu can shoot 3 & 6 over par off a comp Tee agree but are there not any comps yu can compete & the effort worth while ?

No shame in working @ it & winning !!

But were these scores in

a)competition & witnessed ?
b)social play ?
c)on your own ?

cos if latter 2 a bit of dif aye ?

but fear not yu will soon get the chop

Ugg !!

Handicap should be set at your best ability - off comp.tees

Shooting a few over h'cap is about right as most handicappers fail to shoot much below par in competitions (look at the scoresheets) and if they do - they get cut.

Sorted.

Yeh Alan & weel off 13 & to card ony 3 over is 10 under Hcp & if in comp & Hcp ignores it I think he has a point dont yu ?? Ugg

In competition, off competition tees, playing it as it lies, with no gimmees - yep, I'd agree.

General play is exactly that, particularly in the winter, with picking and placing on fairways and shortened courses due to mat positions.

Not always a reflection on ability when under the cosh in competition.

I'm interested in the comments made so far!
My comment is this....currently off 14.0 and keen to go lower. If I hit under my handicap and get cut I'm happy. If I then fail to match it in the summer then I ought to practice more often then! But at least I don't get the "you bandit" treatment everytime I hit a good round. It's as if some courses are dead keen to get everyone's handicap down and others seem to expect a great deal before you can get a cut.....not very consistent. My vote is definately "for" being cut in the winter...... think of the rain, the wind, the cold hands, the icicle on the end of your nose, muddy conditions.... The way I see it is if my handicap does go down it's up to me to back it up with consistent improved play.

A fair call Colin but handicap committees are reluctant to be heavy handed in the winter for the reasons given in the newsletter - apart from the odd outrageous score in a winter medal. Can I suggest you and your pals, who presumably meet up over weekends, police your own handicaps, cutting the winner, second and third in the sweep by 3,2,1 shots respectively the following week. Nominate someone to keep a little black book to keep track of winter roll-up results. I got cut six shots in two weeks once - concentrates the mind, I can tell you!

I think if handicaps went back up at the same speed as they go down I would be all for it. Also it should be club specific.

At the local the winter tees turn some of the par 5's into driver-wedge par 4's, and a couple of the par4's into 3/4 iron par 3's YET they remain at their original par. Last time I played a full 18 from the mats (still on greens AND tees bar one at the mo:-) I had three eagles on my card (only ever had one in 9 summers playing) and shot a one over 73 off a 12 handicap (despite hooking a ball OB on the last for a dbl bogey). Now if I came down 4-5 shots in that one round it would take god knows how many comps (40-50??)to get back up at 0.1 a round. I think by then I would be suicidal. And broke. :-)

My view on cutting handicaps in the winter depends on if you play in any winter competitions or not. If you do and you win, or play under SSS then I believe you should expect to get cut. Remember, it's the same for everyone !
What bugs me regarding the current handicap system is that it takes such a long time to get you handicap increased. It goes up, as most golfers know, by 0.1 every time you play over your handicap.
I guess you can work out how many comps. you have to enter, just to get your handicap increased.

Colin, I'd rather get the "you bandit" japes, whilst winning the odd competition, rather than being cut to a ridiculous level. I'm off 17, but obviously I occasionally shoot a good round, say 12 over par. It would be silly for me to be cut to that sort of level and then never to have a chance.

Depends on how occasionely Alex!
I go back to my original thread- 4 under h'cap off whites -normal greens -pouring with rain -probably the best I have played all year. Was "worth" a cut of a shot in my mind -I just think there should be consistency taht's all.

At our course we operate a Winter Handicap for the Winter League. The league is run on a stapleford system and we lose shots off our handicap dependant on our stapleford points score for the week. For example this week I scored 39 and lost 2 points off my handicap. Once the Winter League is over we revert to our summer handicaps. It seems to satisfy most of the members at my club.

(Actually, of that 39 points 25 were from the back 9 and 31 were from the back 11! A decent front 7 and I could (would?) have won the comp. Maybe it was the early tee-time that did it.)

An interesting topic of conversation is handicapping in the winter months. Play from the forward tees often on Winter greens. The advanatge is in my opinion with the mid to high handicapper. I play off of 2 and basically just handover money during the winter months. The advantages of length, accuracy and solid putting skills are often thwarted by poor greens,shortende etc. I still score similarly to the summer months but find it near impossible to take on the mid handicappers. I would like to see an adjustment based on the length of the course i.e if it is 300 yards shorter then people lose say 1-3 depending on category.

wel wel wel !!

Robo's club seems has arrived @ functional compromise & perhaps winter/summer Hcp has general application relates to all & lifts fear of surface roll & negative advantage

As long as only applicable to that club !

Keep raising such with respect to over 55's Vets to play off & be handicapped off women T's so less able can make more greens & hcp not apply to club events

EG A 9 hole Vets stb ford event yu commence with half yer club h/cp lose 8 shots for a (frozen chicken)win usually in 13/20 points range & a shot back for not winning

Know some run out far as 36 before they get a win I once finished on +20 had to birdie every hole for 2 points

However as purist cannot run with club just ignoring card returns no matter conditions

After 35 years(inlude Bourke concrete Tee's sand greens/no grass on f/ways/& grader to grade anything green off fairway)not played any club adjusted scores to meet conditions

EG: recent proam 1/2 inch water across most fairwaiy all bunkers declared out of play & prefer lies everywhere but should have been T up ful hcap still applied
for all those that c~a~n r~e~m~e~m~e~b~e~r a 1 ! & a 2! & a 3!! those ~were~~the~~the ~days~my~fren~&~boig~ling~was~~~the~trend~&~got~stroke~back~fer~e~v~e~r~y-bad-game !

I tink .1 & a single card in conjunction interduced to catch rats that only played 4 ball & record 27 to 30 points but only card 9 holes !!

I think that rates several Ugg ! Ugg ! donk

Julin; & yu lose in winter there there !!! pleeze don't make me cry !!! but if thos long hcp lose a shot or thuree bet yu win eeeps & make up fer it in summer Aye ? Ugg !

but wot yuse saying bo~b is in winter yuse is jus playing like a LiL Ol 'Sarcial' gofe like any udder social club keeps to yor own kind !~&~der~$~go~roun~&~roun~~la~la~la~~&~ it~jus~stays~ere~~~!!!!

dats~a~good but :

I think wot de udders is saying is "if in comp (or andualusia, greece, turkey !) lol)

comp is as comp dos no matter weather Aye ?

ugg !!

You know, I've tried to translate those last two messages and they still totally lose me!

Always knew Gollum ended up somewhere just a pity it was here. I tried to decode gibberish through bablefish translator and got the message "very sad person".

Back to the plot

I kept stats over the summer this year and I won 4/10 games on match play in handicap events. Since October 1st only 1 game in 8. I have been playing over 30 years and in the time I have played the club handicap K/O I have only progressed past the 3rd round about 4 times.

Back to the real point in Winter I believe higher handicappers should be reduced off of the front tee's and have the handicap adjusted up when back to full competition length.

Heard about sufferers of low h/cp clinical depression Scots tagged it "SAD", Sunlight Additive Deficiency but fortunately we do not catch it down here LOL

so not to many pots & kettles to match !!!

Sounds like more A grad paranoia "The B & C hadicapper has to much advantage, no fair !

Setting the paradox aside can anyone define why handicapping should only be classed of back tees & how come "talented" players are suddenly incapable of meeeting the changed condition when apparently the less tlented can rise to the challenge ??

Or is it sour grapes

I expect to range around top 10% in field & so paid reasonably regularly but not expect winning all the time despite taking out a few state biggies time to time Ugg !! donk

Never mind Handicaps...what on earth is "Ugg Donk?"

Ian...don't go there!

To my mind the hadicaps are given off of back tees playing the course at what should be its designed best. Shortening holes allows higher handicaps to reach the green more easily therefore they can take advantange of their shots to make significantly more net birdies. Then the better player - yes they are hitting in shorter shorts and should be closer to the hole but it requires they hole the putts. This on winter greens tends to be a bit of a lottery as they are slit, dressed, uncut etc. As an example I played with a 19 handicapper last week and he had 9 net birdies. He consistently plays below his handicap during the winter months but put a card in his hand and push the tees back and hey presto he is a 19 handicapper with good and bad days. The game should come out as equal over a period of time in both match play and stroke play events. If clubs use the full handicap difference - as guided by the EGA for match play the odd bad hole that the higher less consistentent player is at an advantage.

Really w are off track fro the original idea for the thread. General play revisions in winter are not a good indicator that the person will be able to do the same when you get back to real competition playing conditions.

good stuff

nothing like a good stir

but do yu not vary T positions even in yor better time of year or only consider what I understand yu call yor "Medal T' as being relative & not complete cards in winter ?

DK

It's a signature Ian ......... this guy is an alien

An Auster -- alien

When you've learned a bit about talking 'Strine' you'll understand him more

the usual latitude for movement of tees from the Marked measured course is 10 yards in front of the tee marker and 2 yards behind the fixed tee maker The over all length of the course should not vary by more than 200 years based on all the actual measured tee course tee positions. In my early days of playing if a course changed its legnth by more than a certain amount you handicap has reduced or increased by a shot for so many yards. Back to the point with CSS only allowed to go down by 1 based on the socres if you pay off of a reduced length course you are playing a course easier than the SSS for the actual course a number of people in the same competinion can have the effect to be well below a 1 shot reduction Therefore if the legnth is reduced your handicap should be reduced in Winter.

hopefully Logic prevails

I don't have an official club handicap, only an EGU one and a different society one. I can understand the points about shorter courses, picking and placing, etc. But in my situation, I always play crap in cold, wet weather, so if I get a good score, I know it's because I've played well and so deserve a handicap cut. And anyway, I want to get my handicap down, so I'm quite happy with that.

Gentlemen, how's this for a starter......
Do golfers all fit into one of two categories?
1/ those who want to reduce their handicap
2/ those who want to maintain / protect their handicap.
Think about it. If this is the case, which are you?
It seems to me that the focus is too often on beating who you are playing (sometimes with the aid of a well defended handicap), and trying to win the monthly comp at all cost. (Don't all rush at once, now). If your mate plays crap, and you play just a little less crap and win, where's the satisfaction in that? (Unless you really hate your mate that is, or you've taken a lot of his money) Personally my focus is in trying to play well and post a good score, irrespective of how my playing partner has performed.
So anyway, back to my point from yesterday, if good cards go in, then let the handicaps be cut!!

The trick through the winter is .. not to get your handicap down but to consolidate the handicap that you have.

This will ensure that during the first few comps in the spring those that have played religiously through the crap weather will have a distinct advantage.

In all the years that I have been playing I have not kicked off the start of the season playing below handicap. It has usually taken me a couple of rounds to get used to playing off proper tees and playing it as it lies.

If you drop your handicap during the winter it will take till the summer to play to it ---- believe me.

haven't had time to read through all the responses but would just like to add that where i play, there is a domestic handicap in play for the winter - i.e if you perform well in a competition during the winter, your winter handicap is adjusted - but only for the winter - when rules of golf return, so does you golfing union handicap - untouched.....this seems to work, as we play comps every week and there seems to be an even spread of prizes......

Thanks Alan nice wun yu noticed !

Ex Hounslow (& not transported)once met guy leaving course Trudan Bay ? wearing three jumpers who reckoned 'braw day fer gofe' & been to St A (not played) & reading seems a bit overcomplicated !

Also us martians are glad do not play Ians 200 year course sounds bit long to me !!

However may face T varying 40M (& interpret for those unfamilier with the antibodisian measure Yards: Less10%=Metres)front to back T positions as a normal event (even stroke
except for monthly medal usually max T blue)

So scores improve but not extent mentioned & if say a 75m differnece could understand different proposition but only moved 15m ?

However some high handicapers return better score on slow/cored/harrassed poor maintain greens less finess req & maybe bash @ hole & "Score" & normal/fast WOT T$%#@# ????

Best of British & got to be a few mad dogs around somwhere we still have a noonday sun

don k

Give crap golf & hcp review the flick !!

Too Cold for Golf ?

Not in Bahamas! Join em @ Royal Oasis Golf Resort & Casino Grand Bahama Island @ $449 R/T Airfare, Room 3 nites & Golf!

Great golf experience ,Warm weather 2 Fazio golf courses but take yer money with yer !

Could not let this jibe go by Ian !!!!

donk

No Ugg this time? I agree about anyone worrying about their (UK) handicap in December needing a "day off!" No point! Me? Off to Sun City / Jo'burg in Feb..play some golf in the Sun!!

Hi,
Many of us don't worry about our handicaps in the winter we worry about the other guys!
David's club seems to have the right idea - have an informal handicap for the winter and revert to the proper one once the season starts.
Our course, Kington (the highest in England) is very short and pretty easy. In winter with forward tees, nudging, no bracken, not much gorse and affable sheep we single figure golfers stand no chance. Especially as all the bleeding competitions are stableford off full handicap.
The same guys win every week and many of us competitive types see the whole exercise as pretty pointless. We have a Wednesday afternoon fiddle and each week the winning score is around 45/46 points and it's always the same buggers up there.
Off six one has to go some to get 46/47 points!
Phew thank goodness I've got that off my chest. Fortunately it's snowing like hell out and even the bandits can't get up there, course closed!

I fully appreciate Robert's frustrations. As a fellow single figure golfer I tend to avoid playing the winter competitions. I prefer to play with similarly handicapped golfers and work on honing skills like the punched 2 iron into the teeth of a gale! Winter golf can be great fun but is no time to be wasting money on stablefords off full handicap!!

I hate low-handicap whingers. Not all of us high-handicappers are cheats and bandits, we have a high handicap 'cos we're crap!!!!
I dont want to be a high-handicapper, I practise lots and have seen my handicap drop from 28 to 25. I hope to get it down to 20ish by next summer.

Hey c'mon Nick give them a break, after all they are only low handicappers because like you they had the desire to get cut and now can't play to it.

What's the point, it's a competitive sport and to be 'competitive' you have to play to your handicap no matter what.
Therefore the wise ensure that their handicap will enable them to win occasionally.

Hey Annika, nice pic - do you send out signed photos?

;-)

Cheeky!

Do you not think that the best format for winter golf is matchplay?

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