'lost' ball...

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'lost' ball...

Hi, just after clarification if possible please?

Am I correct in stating that under rules, you can not declare a ball 'lost', and that it only becomes dead once five minutes of searching are up? (or if you have played your provisional ball past the last known area of the 'missing' ball or have holed your provisional?)

Many thanks

You are correct about the declaration. One and two I would agree with, the last one I would not be so sure about, particularly in match play.  

Thank you - I didn't explain my self very well re 'holing the provi' - this was meant to mean that the hole is classed as finished once all competitors have holed out (including said 'provi')!

Thanks again

The first ball does not become lost if you play the provisional ball past it, it becomes lost if you play the provisional ball from the place where the first ball is believed to be or closer to the hole than that. if the provisional ball is holed, it does not become the ball in play before it's picked up.

Many thanks Rules Doc - they are the answers I'm looking for just not making myself clear enough whilst typing situation!

A different scenario - played one off the tee, get to area ball is presumed (middle of fairway with one tall leaf-less tree) but no sign of it, leave competitors looking whilst player states they will return to the tee and play a 'provisional ball'. Whilst walking back to fellow players the original ball falls out of said tree - can the original ball be played if its within the five minutes?
Basically, is it possible to return to the tee and play a 'provisional' within the five minutes?

bagga-boy wrote (see)

Many thanks Rules Doc - they are the answers I'm looking for just not making myself clear enough whilst typing situation! A different scenario - played one off the tee, get to area ball is presumed (middle of fairway with one tall leaf-less tree) but no sign of it, leave competitors looking whilst player states they will return to the tee and play a 'provisional ball'. Whilst walking back to fellow players the original ball falls out of said tree - can the original ball be played if its within the five minutes? Basically, is it possible to return to the tee and play a 'provisional' within the five minutes?

No!!!

A provisional ball can only be put into play before you leave the teeing ground, if you are on the tee that is.

 

@bagga-boy As long as the 5 minutes from the start of the search have not passed yet, and as long as a new ball has not been put into play, the original ball is in play if found. If the player has returned to the tee and has played a ball, this ball is now the ball in play, and if the first ball is found now, it goes into the bag.

Awesome - just what I thought lads! Thanks again.

I think he's off to sort out a discussion with the lads.

I always believed that you could declare any ball lost at any time. So if you play a provisional but then find your first ball, I always thought you could call it as lost and play on with your provisional.

Are you saying that I am obliged to play the first ball if found.

No, you don't have to play it the first ball if you find it, you may use Rule 28 unplayable ball, but the provisional ball is "dead" the moment you find the original ball. The provisional is only there in case you don't find the first one, it's not an alternative of choice.

Yes boys - just a 'discussion'.... Ha ha

Cheers!

Funnily enough we had this convo on the course on saturday when I explained that you cannot deem a ball lost.  The situation was that a friend looked for his ball on the edge of the trees but didn't want to find it deeper in, as he had no dropping options and prefered to play his provo. This made me wonder that if a Player hits a ball in the crap and then nails a provo next to the flag....in a match play situation, can he say to his opponent 'don't look for my ball' or cam the opponent look for it anyway as he needs to win the hole?  

i was under the impression that you can deem a ball lost at any time without even going to look for it.  But you can only claim a provisional off the tee, you cant go back and hit a provisional and then play the 1st if yuo find it. i am also sure that in matchplay yuor player can go look for the ball and if he finds it you have to play it? can anyone post the proper rule on this?

does this rule not stand anymore? " Say you hit a lousy tee shot on a par 3 that soars into the trees. Thinking it might be gone for good, you hit a provisional that comes to rest five feet from the cup. I bet I know what you're thinking. Do you have to look for your first ball, or can you just say, "It's lost," and play the provisional? And what happens if you declare it lost, but someone finds it before you play your next shot? The first thing to remember is that you don't need to search for your original ball. But it's not considered lost if anyone finds it before you play the next shot with your provisional ball, from a spot nearer the hole—and the five-minute search period hasn't expired (Decision 27-2b/1). In the par-3 scenario described earlier, if you want to abandon your poor tee shot, play the provisional before the first ball can be found within the five-minute window. At five feet, it's closer to the hole than the original. You'd be lying 3. "   so by the sounds of if your playign partners need to be kind and not look for it thus yuo play your 4th shot with the provisional and your orginal tee shot is deemed lost at that point?

I think you have to declare you are playing a provisional. If you don't then your next tee shot (in the above par 3 scenario) becomes the ball in play. If the first ball is found then it goes in the bag as Rules Doc says above. If you declare you a playing a provisional from the tee and your opponent find the first, within 5 minutes, then you have to play the original.  I.e. if your second ball also goes in the crap you can't then decide it a provsional and look for the first. It is in play and you have the option of trying to find the second ball (as the ball in play), hitting a 5th off the tee, or declaring a proviosnal off th tee. Edit: Woo hoo - I can see the post! Missed this place for a while!

yes so in matchplay your opponent can go find it, and make you play it.  And stroke play there is no need to find the ball unless they want to be awkward. thus its a lost ball off the tee and carry on playing yuor provisional.   But yes yuo have to declare yuor playing a provisiol while on the tee

In any form of play other players can go look for a ball if they want to, and if the find a ball the player must go and identify it.I have never seen anyone in stroke play search if the player doesn't but I have seen it and done it in match play of course.Decision 27-2b/1 is still good And yes, a provisional ball must be declared, if the player simply hits another ball from the previous spot (not tee only) without saying anything, that ball becomes the ball in play.