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I remember having a burner with a flex twist titanium shaft, I could pitch that 280. I think modern equipment help average pro swing speeds, 105-115 and do nothing for speeds above
Mindthepond wrote (see)
Was watching the Shell wonderful world thingy it was Gene Littler and Byron Nelson playing Pine Valley, There was a 230 yd par 3 slightly downhill over water, they had to hit driver to reach!! then it cut to some recent tournament and the Pros were hitting 7iron.. Pine Valley has consistently been voted best gold course in the world!! how long before it is redundant???
This is interesting as not counting the weather there are really only 4 variables, the players are stronger, the balls hit longer, the clubheads hit further or the shafts give more power. The increases in technology of all 4 of these have increased so marginal gains add up to a much larger overall gain. I'm not sure why it would be redundant though, I'm still interested in seeing anyone play who can hit the ball within 5ft of a pin 230 yards away regardless of club. They still have to have the ability to do it!
Matt Wells wrote (see)
Mindthepond wrote (see) Was watching the Shell wonderful world thingy it was Gene Littler and Byron Nelson playing Pine Valley, There was a 230 yd par 3 slightly downhill over water, they had to hit driver to reach!! then it cut to some recent tournament and the Pros were hitting 7iron.. Pine Valley has consistently been voted best gold course in the world!! how long before it is redundant??? This is interesting as not counting the weather there are really only 4 variables, the players are stronger, the balls hit longer, the clubheads hit further or the shafts give more power. The increases in technology of all 4 of these have increased so marginal gains add up to a much larger overall gain. I'm not sure why it would be redundant though, I'm still interested in seeing anyone play who can hit the ball within 5ft of a pin 230 yards away regardless of club. They still have to have the ability to do it!
Yup and this cannot happen on older courses as players hit so much further... how many long irons into 17 at the Old Course now? It is a drive and a short iron, often a wedge, it did require a fade then a draw NOW Straight and take aim at the pin with a wedge I have to say, I found golf got quite boring when only ever having short irons (A product of trying to hit further) BUT the ball should be slowed down, I would not give up an advantage but the result was, tee shot wedge, tee shot wedge and so on...
Not sure why this can't happen, the 230 par 3 is still a 230 par 3 as MTP says. If you watch this hole that is what you are going to see. I'm not good enough (yet ) and dont play enough good courses to be in your situation so do find myself playing the longer irons (see my post about my 5 iron) but didn't you find when trying for longer drives you were scrambling more as the extra distance brings in much more margin for error? That is what I love to see when I'm watching the Pros tbh it is the almost magical recovery shots from behind trees (Bubba) or even up in Trees (Garcia). If they just went fairway - green it would be much less interesting. By increasing the possible distance you increase the risk/reward. Its not like they don't have to aim at the same stretch of fairway just further down it!
Matt obviously I meant par 4s as that best illustrates how constantly increasing ball speeds are making golf courses little more than drive and pitch courses. I would vote if given one to take 10% of golf balls in speed, golf would be a better game for it, there was a time when a 450 yard hole was a serious challenge now even golfers that are not particularly skilled can swing a large headed stick with graphite at a golf ball that goes forever and have a relatively short approach. 450 yard holes even for pros used to be long holes, one of the things that caused me to give up memberships was a loss of love for the game, the game was great for me as it was challenging and required great skill to hit shots, I think the ball needs slowing down to give golfers those longer shots in that require skill rather than just sending hte ball into theair with a short club. I am thinking about the two clubs I used to play golf at and cannot think of only 1 par 4 that ever required more than a wedge as an approach , now I hit far but that is wrong.. slow the ball down!
You'd quoted me and MTP talking about a specific hole, only reason I said that. I don't quite understand where you are coming from though, I think you are the first person I've ever heard say that golf is just too easy for them! If you want it to be more challenging then get some older clubs and only use those. I don't think reducing ball speed would make as bigger difference than limiting the clubs you use.
Not too easy for me.. it generally requires a lot less skill as golfers hit much much shorter clubs into golf holes, this over time takes away from great layouts. I mentioned that i would not give up advantage of equipment that would be stupid, what should happen is the golf ball should be slowed by 10% IMO ask Jack Nicklaus he agrees!
Samiguel wrote (see)
Jimbow wrote (see) I was watching my local range pro hit balls recently; he was easily clearing the boundary fence at 300yds. He's a scratch player of Jamega comp standard and of average build. There must be many more like him out there. Why is he only a local pro, not on the European Tour then?
Jimbow wrote (see)
I was watching my local range pro hit balls recently; he was easily clearing the boundary fence at 300yds. He's a scratch player of Jamega comp standard and of average build. There must be many more like him out there.
Why is he only a local pro, not on the European Tour then?
Because he is a scratch golfer. I play with better amateur golfers than the guys on the Jamaga. Good club amateurs can still hit it 300+ doesn't mean your going to be a top tour golfer. So many guys are playing + standard golf these days, yet so few will actually make it to a level where you can make a comfy living. It isn't just about balls, TM are releasing clubs each year that sends the ball further and further. The average golfer only has to walk into a shop now, buy a new set of clubs with fitted shafts and can very easy add 10-20 yards per club yardage to his game. The ball doesn't need to change IMO.
Reducing the speed of the ball is the easiest way to bring distances under control, otherwise you are asking all glf clubs to become illegal at some stage, it is obviously easier to say in 2015 you can only buy 90% golf balls.. based on current standards
Don't think this is a serious problem
Jack Nicklaus has suggested that they need to deaden the golf ball. This, of course, puts him in direct opposition to the virtually countless golf ball manufacturers and perhaps even the pro tours who see tee shot bombers as improving broadcast ratings: "Chicks love the long ball. " LOL
I would imagine golf ball manufactures would love this. Every golfer having to buy new golf balls!
That wouldn't be necessary Tiger Wes, simply introduce a defined specification ball for use on the pro tours. No need to involve the amateur game at all. Alternatively make the rough more punishing and really penalise the pros for missing fairways and greens.
and stop raking the bunkers so they are a real hazard once again.
I'd love to see a ban on hollow headed clubs and enclosed cavities. That would work, and it would have the manufacturers scratching their heads.
^^ According to the OP it's "lack of real estate or old golf courses being largely redundant to the power men.. " Have you not been paying attention?
Put mahooosive fans (at full chat) behind every green, making every golf hole into the wind.Turn 'em off for the birds / codgers / limp-wristed.
Strangely enough many courses with bent grass greens in the South of the US already have massive fans alongside the greens to help circulate the air when it is very hot - so the hardware exists!
^^I posted this on page 1 of this thread.
The ability to hit a long, straight, ball, should be as valued as the ability to knock in five footers.
Just an example. What about wedging it to within ten feet almost every time?
A slower ball ( certainly in pro competitions, maybe for all ) is definitely the answer. "Long hitters" will still retain an advantage of being able to hit it further than other players so will be rewarded for their skill. I don't watch golf to see someone hit it 350 yards... I watch to see the competition between very good players. I don't want to see brilliant and historic golf courses being rendered unfit to hold pro competitions because all the players can overpower them.
This thread is a load of old balls!
Old Tom has it right.
It will never happen.
If historic golf courses become redundant then it's time to open their doors to the paying public with normal green fees and not some hugely ridiculous over inflated cost that is the norm now. Let them feel the history at affordaffordable costs.
It's not pro's 'overpowering' the course that's killing courses, it's the snobbery!
I play a golf course that is over 100 years old. It is very noticeable that in the past ten years or so the average winning score has actually gone up. It was always a very well designed course that put a premium on accuracy rather than length. Back in the days when I could hit a drive 300 yards it meant that I hardly used the driver because it could put me in a lot of trouble if I failed to 'shape the shot'.
There's the answer Jim. More doglegs. Leave the balls alone!
Why does anyone care?Let the pros play on their Mickey Mouse 9000yds target golf set ups, and any true enthusiast can play proper golf courses.@rsehole wannabes (the same idiots who shout "Mashed potato!") can peg it up on the crazy golf, leaving the decent tracks to the decent golfers.
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