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I hope the girl does well, and I for one am glad that she's willing to give it a go at such an early age. I just hope that she's got the right people around her, both to protect her from the media yet be willing to give her room to learn.
No. The PGA Tour can't have it both ways: it claims to be "the best Tour in the world" and is always disdainful of the European Tour and the others (you should hear the golf coverage over here; they never know who anyone from the ET is until they have won a major or got involved in a crisis, like Casey). If they are such a pinnacle, they are not the proper venue for a teenager's "room to learn." She is treating it like a developmental Tour, and their admitting her -- talented as she is -- without her having to qualify (because they know she CAN'T) -- says that's fine by them.
Are you Stateside Venetian?
I agree thet she's not likely to earn a spot by qualifying Still amazing talent -- a joy to watchBut more than just a side show
I think that because she wouldn't have qualified she deserved an invitation from the sponsors. However, I do have mixed feelings. It seems like she is a bit of a gimmick, and her being there is more important then any score she posts.
It's clearly a marketing ploy. Ticket sales last year rose by 20% because of her. She's also on home gound being an Hawian. Yet again, it's all about revenue, for Sony it's pure business.
Nice to see that Justin Rose has finished Day 2 of the Sony at -4. 2nd place behind Shigeki Maruama. Keep it up Justin.
I also see that they have put out Wie-sy in the last 3 ball. Another marketing strategy.
I feel she is being used by the networks, I am stateside and watched some of the tourney. First I'd like to say at 15 she is unbelievable, to even be on Tour. However, I don not think it is a good thing for her to emerge on the Tour with an exemption and play. It put too much pressure on her. I mean the last 30 minutes were about her scrambling for birdies, they (ESPN) even cut into a commerical break to show her putting (+10) for a final chance to make the cut. This is all for sale and ratings, she needs to complete school and paly some college and then dominate the LPGA. Then with take on the PGA.Just look for Ty Tyron...where in the heck is he?!?!!?!
Billy - you are spot on. I made comment about the fact that this young girl has not even done anything on the Ladies Tour so why the heck should she be playing on the men's.She was bound to miss the cut - every woman competing on the mens tour as a guest has.
I think everyone can now see this for the pure gimmick it is, I think it's getting pretty boring. Bottom line though, if Sony are putting up the mi
Yep Harry is spot on, we all know this is out of order based on Tour rules etc. But if sponsors want to drive revenues through gimmicks then the tours would be ill advised to disagree. I have seen some stats comparing viewing figures and projected sponsor revenue return for tournaments. They are all significantly better if Tigger is in attendance and novelties like Michelle and Annika pump up the numbers as well.
Whilst also agreeing that she is purely a gimmick and should not be there (officially) she still came home 5 ahead after 2 rounds of one Euro "hero" Thomas Levet!! That's none too shabby for a teenager!Some folk have put him (TL) in their dreamteam - chuckle, chuckle!
We had a thread on this last year and I fully agree with what I said then. (If only I could remember what I actually did say, I'd feel a lot better). Basically, I agree with most comments here: It is a gimmick, but if it's used sparingly you have to say that it does get non and lapsed golfers interested in the game and boost overall ratings (albeit to the annoyance of hardened golf spectators and some borderline, non-exempt Pros).PS: TYA, rendez-vous at Stoneage midnight for the special ceremony to resurrect Levet's game and get him back on track for the next tournament.
What's wrong with learning at a comp like the Sony? If she can get used to having the world staring down the barrel of a zoom lens, then good for her.Sony gets a good return, she gets a good return, the golfing public get a good return, and the non-golfing followers of Wie pick up more interest in the game.If Sony turned around to any of us and said "hey, we'd like you to play this tournament, and here's some money if you do" would you turn it down? Even tho you might come in last, you'd be hard pressed to turn down cash to play golf.Who knows... you might just win (or get 4th at The Open while the whole world watches on) :)Oh, and just as a final reminder. Ian Poulter, of whom has been the topic of many a thread of late in these very forums, and has been the brunt of many "he's next for the big step up" finished 2 shots ahead of Wie.Casey just the one.
If Sony asked me to play and offered me money to do so I am afraid I would turn them down.The money is not worth the humiliation!Is it true that Michelle Wie has a very disagreeable father?Perhaps Venetian can enlighten us on that one?
The Poulter thing gets me, isn't he older than Tiger ?Other Hawaiin thing is that only one native hawaiin has a tour card and he had to Qualify
I thimk BJ Wie suffers from negative publicity dished out generally to parents of talented young sports stars. Sometimes this bad press is deserved for the overbearing publicity seeking parent(Richard Williams), sometimes not. During the 2003 Womens US Open Wie had a spat with golfer Danielle Ammaccapane because she walked on her "through line" (which in itself is a crock). BJ said Ammaccapane pushed his daughter but later retracted the comment, BJ then stepped down from carrying his daughters bag. He got a bit of stick for this incident but if I felt an adult was having a pop at my young teenage daughter, I'd do exactly the same.
Everything is is on the money. Having Tiger or one of the stars or in this case up and coming stars play (exempt) on a Tour event brings in the money. But the question is in the long term is this good for the Tour? Really it is like one of these horrible reality TV show. As far as the "walking in the line of putt" deal. After reading "Who's your Caddy", Reilly caddied for a Pro and made the comment that you had to respect the other players line, period. If this is the case on the Tour she better folow suit. I do remember that it was her Father that caused some rather heavy drama on the LPGA. Don't remember what it was, I guess because I hear her name and kinda block it out. I realize she is being hyped and go to something else. American media is the root of all this along with corperate sponsorship.Tigers father looking back really helped him by allowing Tiger to just dominate the junior tournements, knowing that later he will "cash-in" at the right age. I think Wie's family is trying to "gravy train" the family phenom. Get as much TV coverage and the checks will come in.
To be honest, I don't think she should be playing in the Sony Open. Why can't she just stick to the LPGA Tour, like all the other Female Golfers.
Now now Alex. Just cause she's a girl?
There's no doubt that she is playing to generate publicity- both for the Tour (and Golf in general) and for Sony. I see no harm in it. She seems to be more than capable of handling the media attention and is certainly not embarrassing herself on the course. She may well inspire other youngsters to take up the game and that would be "a good thing".
Mind you - were I one of the 15 or so "Professionals" that finished behind her I think that it would spoil my day. (Total understatement ;-).
BJ Wie also has no experience of professional golf and is "learning as he goes." Donna Ammacapane was ENTIRELY correct to tell Wie that she had stepped on her line -- after all, the child is there "to learn." BJ did have to climb down from his intemperate and misplaced defence of hsi kid -- I didn't realise that the American attitude that "my child is NEVER, NEVER in the wrong" had spread back to Britain. If that little cow did not know wnough not to walk on a line, she had NO business being there at all. And my point about her is this" these are PROFESSIONAL Tours, not developmental Tours for children to learn their game. And the PGA Tour can't have it both ways (it is, by the way, not any better than any other Tour and it stages a lot fewer serious events than Europe. It is only the richest, and it's the money that keeps xenophobic, travel-averse US players there and attracts internationals to come to them rather than spread to players out around the world. US players, as evidence by two years ago when all four WGCs were held in the US, think America IS the "world").You think Wie is a problem now. She could just have a week with Ben Curtis luck and get herself into the Masters by winning that publinx or whatever it's called that apparently anyone can enter. Now we all know she has no more hope of hauling her carcase around Augusta in under three figures than thee or me, but imagine the zoo she will cause to the atmosphere and the coverage. Whatever one thought of Martha Burk, her circus stopped at the gates. Michelle Wie would enter the groundsd and affect the rounds. And I don't see any way to stop it except her publinx play.
LGL. I've got nothing against Female players, it's just that there is a Tour expecially for females, so that's where she should be playing.
I understand that Wie didn't walk on a line (i.e. between the ball and the cup) but that she was accused of walking on her opponents "through line" (which, apparently, is a continuation of the line but beyond the cup). Must admit that I'd never heard of this concept of a "through line" before and it seems to me that if you enforced this when playing a foursome we'd all look like highland dancers every time we crossed the green. Now that would be a laugh!!
Poster, I have read and understand the "line" goes through the cup. A player is not to walk on that "intended" line. Said player is given a stroke penalty (USGA Rules). This is to include the bag of the player and the caddy. This "line" runs on to the edge of the green. This is to not distract the player putting and if the ball misses the cup nothing will hinder the roll of the ball, I guess. Golf is a game of gamesmenship (if that is a word), polite acts toward your playing partner (not your opponent). This is NOT heard of in many American sports. In normal groups on the course of course we are not going to bother with this as it will add to slow play. but on Tour it seems a gesture of respect, as read in the book "Who's your Caddy" by Rick Rielly. As for Wie she is fifteen and just a remarkable player with great composure. She just needs to be playing with her age group and later with the LPGA.
Billy Bahroo - Sorry - It didn't click with me that this was one of those few areas where the USGA and the R&A rules differ. According to the R&A rules the line of putt does not extend beyond the cup.
Yeah, USGA rules differ greatly against R&A. It seems to be a big no-no among Tour players.
Wie playing in the Sony is no big deal. Sponsors cough up a lot of money for tournaments, and they have right to use their invites as they see fit. She wasn't last, so it's not as if she was miles out her depth. OK, so it's a bit of a gimmick, but nobody got hurt. The tournament gets a bit of extra publicity, the sponsor gets a return - everyone's a winner. Except some poor, low category male pro who missed out. Boo hoo, it's a tough old life, he'll get his chance again - and if he's good enough, he'll take it.Venetian - you talk a lot of sense, and write well, but calling a 15 year old girl a "cow" - Does she really deserve that? Not having a pop, just curious as to the thinking behind the remark.
Seems like alot of disagreement. :)Those that wanna watch, watch. Those that wanna turn over, turn over.There are alot of mixed messages coming through, so here's my 2 penneth.Should she play the LPGA instead? Yes. The forces that be should implement mixed tournaments tho.Should she be made to play with players her own age? No. She's good enough to play the LPGA, so let her play.How do I feel about her treading on someone elses line (or extension thereof)? People forget sometimes, it's a human trait. To err is to be human.One last thing. Although I understand the ruling regarding the line extension beyond the hole, I'd have thought that putting a ball along that line, even on a dead straight putt would be nigh-on impossible... the hole gets in the way. Go through the history books and look for Ballesteros & Azinger. Szinger ends with.."Seve and I were young. We've kind of apologised for whatever" :)
I don't see why she should play on the LPGA if she doesn't qualify. But of course she only plays the number of sponsors' exemptions that Tour allows (6).I personally think all sponsors' exemptions should be eliminated, but that's my own preference based in part upon the abuse of them by some Tournament sponsors (who invite their duffer nephews or such).
And the cow comment?
Have no problem with anyone playing in OPEN events, providinga. they are good enoughb. they earn their placefelt really sorry for Wei in the second round as she was nowhere near the standard required for the conditions. From the shots she played she seems to have little experience of anything other than perfectly manicured courses on sunny days with no wind, and the poor kid had obviously had a putting lesson from Tiger.I'm sure one day she will be able to hold her own even in PGA events in the meantime I would suggest she spends the next winter in Scotland playing links and moorland courses.
That's one of the best suggestions made DM.
Agreed, she needs the experience of different conditions to hone her game. But even assuming she's as good as an average male pro - how would a 15 year old Todd Hamilton, Jeff Maggert, or Thomas Levet fared in a similar situation? My guess is worse.Still curious as to her bovine qualities.
Me too. I am always admiring of Venetians knowledge of the tour and he is very eloquent in putting forward his views, but I have noticed that he does'nt seem to want to answer direct questions sometimes.Are the small questions too banal for you Venetian?
DM, good point! But the Sony is being played on her HOME course. That has to tell her something about the Tour. Forget the weekend, she could not get pass the Friday cut line. The holes get longer on the weekend and the hole locations get more difficult, the greens are even faster. I am a 19 handicap, here where I am at the LPGA puts on a Futures Tour event for future women Pros. A few of us go and play the day after. The greens are like concrete, approach shots bounce of the green and the putts forget it! They are screaming with just a firm tap. I can only imagine what it is like on the Tour course. She needs more than jsut experience, she needs to compete with the likes of her age and gender in true competition games....Around the world.OPEN that is a different story, she earned the right to play, as everyone else in the field.
I think her dad is one of those "pushy parents". Like whom there are shows about on TV. Who try to live their own failed sporting careers through their kids. To subject his poor kid to all that publicity. He must have known a lot of it would be negative, is badly wrong. There is a lot more pressure on the poor kid simply because of her sex.I think one day maybe she will be good enough to compete at the top, but for now, she's still got a lot to learn. and she has the right to do a bit of growing up away from the sporlight. Remember unlike an adult she has to keep up with her schoolwork. How she plans to get through college, i cannot imagine. unless her tutors cut her an awfull lot of slack. which will be unfair to her peers. I think her dad has a lot to answer for.
"that little cow"Charming, do you refer to all young teenage girls like that or has she upset you personally?"I didn't realise that the American attitude that "my child is NEVER, NEVER in the wrong" had spread back to Britain."Is this backhander directed at me? Well assume all you like, most people would think my values as a parent are very much English and traditional some would say old fashioned. I would hope my 2 young daughters grow up to be pleasant, polite, well mannered young adults in no way do I think they are better or above anyone else. But if someone called my 14 year old kid a little cow for walkin on her through line ("through line"? make the putt love, then you wont have a through line) within earshot then they would be in trouble.
With you on that one Harry. Enough said.
LGL - for info, The Venetian is a lady.
Quote: "how would a 15 year old Todd Hamilton, Jeff Maggert, or Thomas Levet fared in a similar situation? My guess is worse."Er, didn't she whip Levet's butt in this one? And he being all grown up already?
Pushy parents do have a place in sports, as well as golf. You only have to look at Richard Williams. He's forever attending, training, and managing his daughters. Look what they have done for female tennis. They have all the qualities to beat male tennis players because of the natural born talent they have.Wie clearly has some kind of talent, otherwise there would not be the media attention around her. Whether we have to wait a while to un-earth more of her (so to speak) then so be it. If she does to golf what the Williams sisters have done for tennis, then that can only be a positive thing, right?
The one thing about Michelle is that she obviously has the ability and skill to compete but like ant other golfer will have her off days. What other invitees get this sort of media attention. It must be very hard for her to play at her best in the circumstances.I can only remember one other invitee causing this much 'controversy' and that was Nigel Mansell being invited to play in an pro event in Australia when he was an 8 handicap player
TYA - exactly the point I was making. OK, she didn't make the cut. But for a 15 year old (regardless of sex), she far from disgraced herself.
She's now missed the cut twice in the Sony Open, last year by a shot and this year by a mile.Enough is enough.
McAl - yeah, I reread it and realised I had first seen it the wrong way round - a bit of a senior moment, methinks ;)Does anyone know if she's played against any of the Ladies Tour darlings? And how do you think the likes of Annika would do against a similar (men's) field?
Thanks for that info McAl - I had no idea. How did I miss that one?
Too busy flirting with Kev in the other threads, I would suggest ;-)